( - promoted by Carnacki)
Interview by Heath Harrison
On October 22, 2007 a jury ordered Dupont to pay $196.2 million to residents of Spelter, W.Va. The company was found negligent in creating a 112-acre waste site laced with arsenic, cadmium and lead. The poisons left for 50 years, had become airborne and had contaminated the groundwater. Health problems were abundant in the town, causing the area to be known as the "cancer triangle."
Representing the citizens of Spelter were environmentalists Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. and Mike Papatonio. The pair are co-hosts of Air America's news magazine Ring of Fire and are founders of GoLeft.TV a web site devoted to progressive video.
Papantonio, known for stinging "Pap Attack" commentaries on the network was featured in the 2006 documentary "Jesus Camp," in which he takes the camp's founder Becky Fischer to task for indoctrinating children into rightwing fanaticism.
Papantonio spoke with me before the Spelter case went to court.
Q: What do you feel "Ring of Fire" brings to the Air America lineup?
A: Our format is radio magazine. I think the reason it's taken off so Well is - with call-in talk, you've got some voice on the air for three hours giving their opinions - I think people want a little change from that.
The reason the progressive voice in the U.S. failed for so long was for a couple of reasons: First of all, you had a real direct design by a very conservative movement in the country to take control of what I call "citizen's media," things like AM radio.
The other side, there was nobody out there, really. You have NPR that would talk in warm, fuzzy terms and, "Gee, let's get along and join hands and sing Cumbaya together." You can't talk about the issues that are as ugly as they are these days and be nice about it.
I think my role is that I'm kind of regarded as that person that is not warm and fuzzy. I admit that I'm not. I don't really want to get along with them and I don't care whether they listen to me.
Q: With television dominated by conservative viewpoints, do you feel progressives should try to put pressure on corporate outlets to adopt a more diverse range of viewpoints or are they better served by building an alternative media system?
A: You've hit it on the head - corporate America has completely taken control of the agenda for television.
But what's happening now is there's a major shift taking place and we're seeing it with Air America. There's something that's rising up and is a true citizen's media where you have people saying, "I can't believe Brian Williams anymore - once I know where he comes from and that he's been an apologist for the GOP for several years, so I have to go elsewhere."
I don't think you'll ever be able to rebuild mainstream media. It's just too far gone. But what you will do is build a parallel media that will become more effective than mainstream media. I've interviewed Dan Rather, Helen Thomas, Bill Moyers - you talk to all these people, they say mainstream media, investigative journalism is completely dead.
When they say that, you know there's something to it, because they've been doing it all their lives.
Q: Your program is one of the few media outlets that regularly reports on mountaintop removal. How do think activists can overcome the mainstream media blackout and bring the issue to national attention?
A: If you look at how disastrous West Virginia's been treated - mountaintop Mining - In the history of this country, since the Bushies took over, there's never been so much complete destruction of mountain land mass as we've seen under this administration. Not only do you have the power elite to overcome, but you've got the power elite that controls the
message completely.
In other words, activism doesn't do what it used to do. If you look at activism marches anymore, the mainstream media chooses to ignore them. So it's an uphill battle. I think that's what the tragedy is in West Virginia.
I kind of wear two hats. You may know about the Spelter case I have going on. Dupont got away with killing, absolutely poisoning an entire community in Spelter, West Virginia. It's unbelievable, these documents.
Now, can I take these documents and give them to media up there that will do something with them? I can, but I have to get the case to trial first.
Activism alone doesn't work anymore. There has to be something dramatic that happens.
In West Virginia, my god, every time I turn around, it's another disastrous story about corporate America, either attacking labor, polluting streams, blowing off the tops of mountains. It's as if people yawn and say, "You know, well that's West Virginia." They don't pay attention to it until somebody punishes Dupont or one of these corporations.
I know it sounds pretty cynical, but I've done progressive radio for nearly four years and have done plaintiff's trial law for 25 years and see it's pretty clear what has to happen.
Q: The corporate interests here have tried to play labor against environmentalists, framing the issue around the false premise that protecting the environment always means a loss of jobs.
A: Oh absolutely. One of the most important things you had in West Virginia for so long was such a strong union. They understood that there's no way you can solve the question of class disparity and wealth disparity without being able to - You have to have a middle class and labor gave West Virginians that chance to rise above just being working for the man and actually have a middle class life.
It's amazing, based on cultural issues alone, that you have West Virginians that say "I went GOP because of gay marriage, because of abortion, because Reverend Falwell told me to." It's that competing interest that you have - and I see it so clearly in West Virginia. I've seen the willingness of so many residents up there to say, "The wealth issue doesn't' matter to me as much as the cultural issue."
It's tough argue with a guy. You're saying, "You realize if you do what Falwell tells you you're not going to be able to feed your kids, you're not going to be able to have a pension program that's in place, you're not going to be able to have health insurance or be able to educate your child. You're willing to give all that up in exchange for your cultural issue."
It's very tough to have that conversation.
Q: A recent book, Whistling Past Dixie, makes the case that conservatism can be defeated nationally without winning the South. You've discussed the book on your show. Do you agree with that premise?
A: Sometimes I say on the show that we can win without the South. I say that more in frustration, because, really what we have to do - we can't turn out the lights and go home. In my heart, that's what I feel.
You can't say, "It's the South and they just don't get it." I've been here all my life. I was raised in the deep, deep south of central Florida. I think we have a responsibility to stay here and fight it out, even if that message isn't fully embraced.
I remember talking with Morris Dees, who was the head of the Southern Poverty Law Center and a huge civil rights type out of Southern Alabama. I asked, "Is there any one event that changed the civil rights movement?" And he said, "No, it was all a mixture of separate, distinct events. But all of the sudden, all of these events coalesced and this huge, positive leap for the culture took place."
What I'm saying on the radio - It may not reach more than 600,000 people, but that has an effect in the long run.
Q: I've seen Democratic candidates get defeated here by trying to run as conservatives, by adopting the anti-gay stands and so forth. But Sherrod Brown in Ohio ran for the Senate on economic, kitchen table issues and economic populism. When the Republicans tried to use his stands on social issues, against him, it didn't stick.
A: Exactly. Look, you've gotta die in your boots. To me, a candidate needs to say, "Here's what I stand for."
If they'll say those things instead of trying to put one leg on eachside of the line - that's the message that was delivered up there in the race you're talking about. Social issues will only go so far in some places.
It depends on what the economics of the area are. I think right now, for example, West Virginia, If you look at the economic issues up there right now, my god, I think you're at edge of that very same kind of social revolution.
Q: On the issue of mountaintop removal, your show has repeatedly discussed Masssey Energy CEO Don Blankenship. He recently tried to buy the legislature here in West Virginia by targeting progressive candidates and attacking them on social issues. But it backfired and all of the candidates he supported ended up losing.
A: Right - because of his credibility. It was a character-based revolt. They said "This guy is revolting to me."
It's just like Cheney - I love every day Cheney's on the air, every time he's talking out the side of his mouth. We know his approval rating is 18-25% on a good day.
The association with these thugs that now dominate the GOP is killing them and they don't know how to get away from it.
Q: Another issue that you cover frequently is global warming. We're seeing a massive amount of disinformation released as the issue gains momentum. Do you think they can counter environmentalists or is the movement for change too strong?
A: Well, the other side, they really are masters of it. Let me give it to you in a nutshell: If you were to identify an industrial group that has more to do with misinformation in this country, it would be the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. They used to be regarded as a 'mom and pop' organization, but they're anything but.
Now here's who they really are: They are Dick Cheney. They are Halliburton. They are Exxon, Merc, Dupont...
As soon as the global warming issue started heating up, they put together their own funding to fight back. They actually went out and recruited lapdogs like John Stossel and Michael Crichton to talk about their issues. They've prepared for this argument about global warming for a long time.
I don't think it's ever going to lose traction. It's going to be a series of skirmishes. Look at what's happened now. They've moved from saying that there is no global warming to "well, yes, there is global warming and you know what? It's good for us."
That is the new neocon message - that global warming is good for all of Us - that it's going to create completely new ecosystems, new biosystems. It's going to open up the shipping lanes in the north and we can save money. It's going to create new coastlines for new real estate. These actually are arguments these boneheads are making.
Q: Rush Limbaugh has even tried to make the argument that it's good because more people supposedly die from cold than heat.
A: Oh yeah, it's amazing. They didn't just come with that. They've had this in their quiver for a long time. They knew, ultimately, that they were going to lose the global warming argument. Now it's just Phase II: you hire these lapdogs. They're not real journalists. They're these guys you can get to say anything. They're not real scientists, they're
biostitutes who will say anything for any price.
I expect these skirmishes to continue, but ultimately, you now have 70% of the American public who are aware and do buy into global warming. The problem is they haven't been hit hard enough to understand and they're not willing to say it's an important political issue at this point, but I think that's where they're headed.
Q: You've spoken of the national agenda of the chamber of commerce. Does this kind of activity penetrate to the state and local level?
A: Oh my gosh, yes. Let me just give you an example. In West Virginia, what you have going on right now is an attempt to change your civil justice process. The Chamber of Commerce has spent $15 million this last year trying to get courts, legislators and citizens in states like West Virginia to give up their right to go to court.
They do this by saying, "The civil justice process is broken. There's too many lawsuits, West Virginia is a litigious state."
If you follow all that money, there's not a grassroots organization saying that. It's all the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. They are industrialists in the truest sense and will do damn near anything to get their way.
Here's what they've undertaken: A.) They want to deregulate everything and (B.) After you deregulate, they want to close the courthouse to people for whom that might be the only avenue they have open.
The other thing they have done is completely and utterly neuter media. They've convinced the media that they're too liberal, but they know that's not true. The guy's that own the media are not liberal. They're multi-multi billionaires. It's clear what the Chamber of Commerce Is up to. They couldn't care less about your workers in West Virginia. They despise them. All they are is a nuisance to them.
If they can't increase their profits by raping your land, blowing up your mountains, polluting your rivers and fixing it so you can't go to court, they're having a bad day.
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'Ring of Fire' can be heard on Air America Radio on Saturdays from 3-6 p.m. More information is available at www.ringoffireradio.com and www.goleft.tv
Heath Harrison is a former student activist, freelance writer and co-founder of Bejeezus magazine. |
