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Big Daddy Sen. Robert C. Byrd

Coal Action Heats up Capitol Hill

by: Clem Guttata

Mon Mar 02, 2009 at 06:31:42 AM EST


Clem Guttata :: Coal Action Heats up Capitol Hill
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Coal Action Heats up Capitol Hill | 37 comments
i hope (0.00 / 0)
these global warming protestors layer their clothing appropriately, bring toboggans, scarves and gloves...its 23 degrees with a minus 1 wind chill factor in D.C. today...oh yeah, and snowing....LOL!
steve (4.00 / 1)
You're just like a flat earther who while traveling on a flat stretch of road proclaims: "See! The earth is flat!"

When a man embarks upon a crime, he is morally guilty of any other crime which may spring from it. Sherlock Holmes.
[ Parent ]
steve (4.00 / 1)
it's called climate change
it's march and it's now spring
all the freak snows in Miss. and La. and Ga. as Las Vegas
winter tornados in the carolinas
three years of drought in Calif.
do you know the difference between weather and climate?
no, you prove you don't every time this discussion starts

NFTT: Support My Team or I Will Dance
[ Parent ]
give steve a break (4.00 / 1)
As far as I can remember, his concern for today's protesters is his first ever sign of compassion in a comment! ;-)

As to the climate change question, no doubt he's equally concerned that January, 2009 was the warmest January on record.

Oh, wait, despite those "two degrees on the wall" we don't know if Steve ever learned to believe in scientific evidence. He's yet to agreed on terms of debate beyond "feelings in his stomach." LOL. Better send him some Tums.

[ Parent ]
the (0.00 / 0)
climate is always changing.....the pro-global warming crowd really makes me laugh...i especially love those kids in the video who will believe in the cause de jour...takes alot of nerve to sit over in richmond and tell west virginians what they should do with their land...
[ Parent ]
steve (0.00 / 0)
So all those reports from groups as diverse as the Department of Defense and the insurance industry on the very real threats posed by climate change, they're just people who believe in the "cause de jour"?

It's interesting that you call them the "pro-global warming crowd." Considering your approach is bury your head in the sand to do nothing, I'd say that you're much more "pro-global warming" than any one else.


When a man embarks upon a crime, he is morally guilty of any other crime which may spring from it. Sherlock Holmes.

[ Parent ]
an (0.00 / 0)
equally diverse crowd disputes your so called equally diverse crowd...and simply put, i can see how anybody would take seriously a group of folks who fall in line with that dolt, al gore  
[ Parent ]
Really? Got links to back up your statement (0.00 / 0)
Here's one story on the insurance industry worried about climate change.

NEW YORK -
Insurance companies, who like to stay out of the limelight, are becoming leading business protagonists in the assault on global warming.

snip

One reason for this massive change in coverage is an ongoing shift in the way insurance companies view risk. Insurers are starting to change their risk-assessment models to reflect future climate-change scenarios instead of past weather patterns.

"Climate change represents an ever- increasing risk, a risk far too great to ignore," says Clement Booth, a member of the Board of Management at Allianz AG, one of the world's largest insurance firms.

Those are just kids following the "cause da jour"?

Or this "apocalyptic" report from the Pentagon, that liberal bastian of liberal people who follow the "cause da jour"?

We have created a climate change scenario that although not the most likely, is plausible, and would challenge United States national security in ways that should be considered immediately.

There is substantial evidence to indicate that significant global warming will occur during the 21st century. Because changes have been gradual so far, and are projected to be similarly gradual in the future, the effects of global warming have the potential to be manageable for most nations. Recent research, however, suggests that there is a possibility that this gradual global warming could lead to a relatively abrupt slowing of the ocean's thermohaline conveyor, which could lead to harsher winter weather conditions, sharply reduced soil moisture, and more intense winds in certain regions that currently provide a significant fraction of the world's food production. With inadequate preparation, the result could be a significant drop in the human carrying capacity of the Earth's environment.

You keep burying your head in the sand because you're a fine example of how Republicans offer no solutions to real problems facing us.

When a man embarks upon a crime, he is morally guilty of any other crime which may spring from it. Sherlock Holmes.

[ Parent ]
who do you believe? (0.00 / 0)
Carnacki, who are you going to believe, Allianz AG and the Pentagon, or a undercooked burrito?

Give it up, all this facts mumbo-jumbo stuff. You and I both know that Steve is only going to go with that "gut feeling" of his. One day he's going to have an undercooked burrito for lunch and his "gut feeling" will change.

Then he'll be logging on here and warning us all about how we need to follow his example and replace all our home and office light bulbs with compact fluorescents. And, not just 'cause they'll save us all a bunch of money, but 'cause it'll help save the planet, too!

[ Parent ]
i (0.00 / 0)
love the "not likelys" and "coulds" and "mays" which get thrown around as if they are certainties...theres a global warming panic out there feuled by the not likelys and the coulds...
[ Parent ]
steve (0.00 / 0)
De Nile ain't just a river in Egypt and your De Nile runs deep and not too swift.

When a man embarks upon a crime, he is morally guilty of any other crime which may spring from it. Sherlock Holmes.
[ Parent ]
no, you mental midget...... (0.00 / 0)
there is global warming (global climate change) scare due to SCIENCE.
[ Parent ]
Notice? (0.00 / 0)
Notice I asked for links for him to back up his statements and got none? Facts? He don't need no steekin' facts!


When a man embarks upon a crime, he is morally guilty of any other crime which may spring from it. Sherlock Holmes.
[ Parent ]
just one (0.00 / 0)
[ Parent ]
The 17,200 number is (4.00 / 1)
So thoroughly debunked, it has its own Wikipedia entry: Oregon petition
[ Parent ]
steve (0.00 / 0)
That's it? That's all you got? The Petition Project Site? A petition signed by anyone and then touted as signed by "17,200 scientists"?

Did you even know that list included very few actual scientists?

Did you know some of the "signatories" were people who said they never signed the petition?

Did you know some of the "signatories" include Robert C. Byrd and Gerri Halliwell ie people who never signed it?

Did you also know that some of the actual scientists who have signed it now say they are convinced that global warming is real?

Scientific American took a random sample of 30 of the 1,400 signatories claiming to hold a Ph.D. in a climate-related science. Of the 26 we were able to identify in various databases, 11 said they still agreed with the petition -- one was an active climate researcher, two others had relevant expertise, and eight signed based on an informal evaluation. Six said they would not sign the petition today, three did not remember any such petition, one had died, and five did not answer repeated messages. Crudely extrapolating, the petition supporters include a core of about 200 climate researchers - a respectable number, though rather a small fraction of the climatological community.

So crudely extrapolating even further, a significant number, 7 out of the 30 name sample, don't even exist in any databases or did not remember any such petition. So not only do you bring something claiming to have the signatures of 17,200 scientists, very few of the signatories were even scientists and an even smaller percentage have anything related with climatology. There's more dentists than climatologists on your "scientific petition." But not only that, it's clear that the petition involves a considerable amount of fraud with the names of people put on it who never even signed it.

Perhaps the comments of the very article you cited might have given you a clue.

The senior author of the article was Dr. Arthur B. Robinson, a biochemist (not a climate scientist) and a Christian fundamentalist. The second and third authors were Drs. Sallie Baliunas and Willie Soon of Harvard-Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics. Both of these individuals have strong ties to the George C. Marshall Institute, which has taken a skeptical position on global warming since the 1980s and has received extensive financial support from the oil industry. The fourth and final author was Zachary W. Robinson, Arthur Robinson's 22-year-old son.

Here's what it says about the signatures:

One newspaper reporter said, in 2005:

I quote a comment from RealClimate.org:

In less than 10 minutes of casual scanning, I found duplicate names (Did two Joe R. Eaglemans and two David Tompkins sign the petition, or were some individuals counted twice?), single names without even an initial (Biolchini), corporate names (Graybeal & Sayre, Inc. How does a business sign a petition?), and an apparently phony single name (Redwine, Ph.D.). These examples underscore a major weakness of the list: there is no way to check the authenticity of the names. Names are given, but no identifying information (e.g., institutional affiliation) is provided. Why the lack of transparency?

You make it sound like all but a few of the 17,000 signatures could be confirmed, when in fact, virtually none of the 17,000 could be.

there were at least four petitions put out in the 1990's. They are the Heidelberg petition , the Oregon petition, and two Leipzic Declarations. They are completely bogus and were put out by the usual supects Singer, Seitz et al.

It took me less than 30 seconds to figure out your claim was debunked.

Try to bring something better next time.

That's all you've got? I include info from the insurance industry and the DoD to back up my claims - and even you can't call those two groups liberal treehuggers - you come come back with a piece from a denier site

When a man embarks upon a crime, he is morally guilty of any other crime which may spring from it. Sherlock Holmes.

[ Parent ]
Carnacki, just wait (0.00 / 0)
the list from Sen. Inhofe's staffer will appear
the one that counts weathermen as climatologists

NFTT: Support My Team or I Will Dance
[ Parent ]
one site (0.00 / 0)
of many...you position is not a certainty...you lose
[ Parent ]
"you lose"????? (0.00 / 0)
So, can you explain how he lost this argument? "you position is not a certainty".....the sad thing is that in the scientific community, this is not even a real argument anymore.....the argument has more shifted to what we can do about it.......it is only nitwits like you who continue to spout your right-wing propaganda who are still arguing whether this is reality or not.
You can throw up fringe groups to argue any point, hell I'm sure there is a small group of Jews who will tell you the holocaust didn't happen!
The vast majority of reputable scientists agree on this issue.....that is the end of the argument, YOU lose.
[ Parent ]
Hahahahahaha (0.00 / 0)
::deep breath::

Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha

::Rolling on floor::

Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha Hahahahaha

::Gasp::

Sorry for laughing at you. But it's funny how much your "you lose" comment because of your easily debunked petition illustrates, let's be kind, how climate change deniers live in their own reality.



When a man embarks upon a crime, he is morally guilty of any other crime which may spring from it. Sherlock Holmes.

[ Parent ]
carnacki (4.00 / 1)
oh geeze, i was going to say i am certain how you get babies

i was going to say that when i get up from my seat and try to walk through the door frame i am certain there is a non-zero possibly i will hit the wall

NFTT: Support My Team or I Will Dance

[ Parent ]
CA Berkeley (0.00 / 0)
As Bill in Portland Maine would say of steve, "Bless his heart."



When a man embarks upon a crime, he is morally guilty of any other crime which may spring from it. Sherlock Holmes.

[ Parent ]
steve (4.00 / 1)
just proved you know nothing about science
certainty is best left to religion
science is always hypothesis, even number systems

so how do you explain the retreat north of sugar maples that require cold winters, never grew south of Tenn.?
old timers in Maine who have been tappers for five generation see the changes
trees were never tapped before now
spring is coming two weeks earlier
all the CO2 makes longer growing seasons?
isn't that the spin your guys put on it?
tell that to a someone who likes Md. maple syrup

hey, Sunday it was overcast, 36 and snowing
today it is sunny, 18 and windy
has the climate changed?

NFTT: Support My Team or I Will Dance

[ Parent ]
more (0.00 / 0)
[ Parent ]
stevewvu (4.00 / 1)
We already talked about how weathermen are not climatologists, and you can't count people twice and all that non-maple-syrup sticky stuff.

I should get into another line of work. I predicted last night you would link to this WKRP from the rude OK senator again.

NFTT: Support My Team or I Will Dance

[ Parent ]
You nailed it (0.00 / 0)
Good job, CA Berkeley!

Honestly steve, I'm disappointed. I don't think you are really trying at this point.

When a man embarks upon a crime, he is morally guilty of any other crime which may spring from it. Sherlock Holmes.

[ Parent ]
I agree totally with you Steve, (4.00 / 2)
after all what do Nobel Prize winning scientists know that Rush doesn't?  Really, I find it makes perfect sense to ignore the work of scientist because........well, who cares what they say.
[ Parent ]
that device on the left side of Rush's head was for data input? (4.00 / 1)
i though is was a cochlear implant since Rush lost his hearing from too much hillbilly heroin.

NFTT: Support My Team or I Will Dance
[ Parent ]
steve (4.00 / 1)
not so that we could notice in our lifetimes before

climate is always changing.

I repeat, do you know the difference between weather and climate?

the pro-global warming crowd really makes me laugh

You are the pro-global warming crowd of one here.

i especially love those kids in the video who will believe in the cause de jour

you know they love their country too, bless you.

takes alot of nerve to sit over in richmond and tell west virginians what they should do with their land...

Glad you are telling off Massey Energy adn Don Blankenship! I did not expect that! Watch your back.

NFTT: Support My Team or I Will Dance
[ Parent ]
massey (0.00 / 0)
owns or otherwise has rights in the land they mine...you and the girl in the video do not....
[ Parent ]
steve, unlike socialist Alaska where the state owns the minerals (0.00 / 0)
they own the mineral rights. people sell after blasting starts next door.
they sure as hockey sticks don't own the water they are polluting.
And I am sure that if Marsh Fork pond breaks they are hoping for the same sweetheart clean up deal Shelley's daddy gave coal after Buffalo Creek.

NFTT: Support My Team or I Will Dance
[ Parent ]
the (0.00 / 0)
"if's" are much akin to the "not likelys" and the "coulds"
[ Parent ]
stevewvu, do you write for a living? (0.00 / 0)
likely having a high probability of occurring or being true : very probable

from the Pentagon. water resources. so to get rid of fat in the DOD budget, you are not going to believe their squawking then either?

the solution to pollution is not dilution. if we cut pollution and help children's health, if we become more efficient and reduce imports, what is so bad about that?

for me it's the sugar maples retreating. the march northward of things like fire ants isn't any kind of WTF for you? aren't you afraid us hippie pinko libural socialist fascist environmental terrorists will bury you in an ant hill so we can take away all your money and guns and make your kids marry teh ghey?

NFTT: Support My Team or I Will Dance

[ Parent ]
"I've been hikiing and backpacking..." (4.00 / 1)
I love the lady in the video, "I've been hiking and backpacking a lot in west Virginia, Richmond".

(pounding head) Not near Richmond! Not near Richmond! Two separate states.

Man. I give up.  

http://blog.inkwv.com/



http://twitter.com/abarnes3

Hmm........ (0.00 / 0)
ya know, there are ways for people to travel from Richmond into WV.........I live in WV and I've been hiking/biking/climbing/hunting/fishing in many different states......
[ Parent ]
3:41 (0.00 / 0)
She says "West Virginia and Richmond."

I think she knows there is a difference.

Ease up, she's one of the good people!

[ Parent ]
On a more substantive note (4.00 / 1)
The position of Sen. Byrd, long one of the major Sen. road blocks in the way off a complete conversion from coal, is thawing like arctic polar bear habitat:

Capitol power plant dims clean energy hopes

An effort in 2000 to rid the plant of coal and oil was blocked by two senators from coal-producing states. Sens. Robert Byrd, D-W.Va., and Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., argued at the time that the continued use of coal would save taxpayers money because it is cheaper than natural gas.

Last week Byrd seemed more willing to compromise, saying he would support looking at the natural gas option.

Converting the plant entirely to natural gas would require equipment upgrades at the facility that would cost between $6 million and $7 million, in addition to having to buy more natural gas. It would cost $139 per ton of carbon dioxide saved, or about $2 million a year just for the House's portion of heating and air conditioning.

Pelosi and Reid say the investment far outweighs the costs.

Of note, West Virginia provides about 1-2% of domestic natural gas production.

One big problem we still face in discussion of the costs of coal versus other fuel sources is the market price of coal is nowhere near the true cost of coal.

A cap-and-trade system (or carbon tax) for green gas emissions is a start, but that's only a portion of the estimated $451 billion per year of damage caused by mining accidents, carbon dioxide emission, and illnesses related to coal.

Coal Action Heats up Capitol Hill | 37 comments
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