Blood on their hands

Got to ask where John Cole gets his info from? (0.00 / 0)

  I mean I agree with the premise that people should be responsible for their speech and hate speech is something we all need to consider.

  But I mean come on now.  

   I have heard so much crap passing as truth lately I have started stepping back and asking where are the sources for this stuff.

   I mean recently CNN and Huffington Post of all places had articles stating that President Obama had suggested soldiers combat injuries  care should be covered by private insurance.........................  No he didn't , never happened ....................  Just another myth that popped up and the blog o sphere helped to spread it.

  So considering that its been a matter of what two hours since the gunmans name was even given out by cops ........................where are the links this blogger John Cole is using to get his statements from?

   I mean John Cole does realize that the national media will pay to get statements like this to blare all over the national media? ......................  Yet I suppose John Cole knew these folks and he managed to scoop the national media .....................   And I also suppose the reason he has no sources listed , videos anything on his blog is because this was all told to him off the record?

  Yeah where have we heard that before ?

  All I am saying is that if you intend to fight propaganda and lies ................. you can't do it with more propaganda and lies.   So you got to be darn sure of sources and verifiable statements before you run with them.

    I don't see any proof at all on John Coles blog.  
  So as much as I would love to run with this supposition and post it all over the net..............  I think I will hold off for some proof first.   Can't win the war with we think so and I heards so it must be true's .  Bush heard Saddam Hussien had links to Osama Bin Laden too and we all see how true that was.
   

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by: wvpeach @ Sat Apr 04, 2009 at 22:41:35 PM UTC

You missed the link (4.00 / 2)

Here was the link in his post.

Here's more at the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette:

Mr.Poplawski called Edward Perkovic, a longtime friend and former classmate at North Catholic High School, on a cell phone around 8:30 a.m. Mr. Perkovic said Mr. Poplawski told him he'd been shot in the chest and leg, but that the bulletproof vest he'd been wearing had shielded him.

Mr. Perkovic also said Mr. Poplawski told him: "Eddie, I'm going to die today. Tell your family and friends I love them. This is probably the end."

A burst of gunfire followed, and the call ended, Mr. Perkovic said. A short time later, he said, a city 911 official telephoned him and asked him to come to Fairfield Street and help to negotiate a surrender with Mr. Poplawski.

By the time he arrived there, however, the standoff had ended.

Mr. Perkovic and other former classmates said they were surprised by this morning's events. Mr. Perkovic said Mr. Poplawski was opposed to "Zionist propaganda" and was fearful that his right to own weapons would be taken away but he wasn't a member of an organized group or militia.

"He always said that if someone tried to take his weapons away he would do what his forefathers told him to do and defend himself."

Another friend, Aaron Vire, 23, said he'd helped Mr. Poplawski and Mr. Perkovic with a radio show they'd broadcast on the Internet, discussing "politics, girls and life."

Mr. Poplawski had supported Republican candidate John McCain in the presidential election and had "very spirited debates" about Democratic candidate Barack Obama, Mr. Vire said. Mr. Poplawski was opposed to Mr. Obama's election, which he thought would result in the loss of his rights, Mr. Vire said.

"He wasn't a racist but thought some of his amendments were overlooked," Mr. Vire said. Even though Mr. Vire is black and Mr. Poplawski is white, the debates over President Obama did not hurt their friendship, he said.

When a man embarks upon a crime, he is morally guilty of any other crime which may spring from it. Sherlock Holmes.

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by: Carnacki @ Sat Apr 04, 2009 at 23:53:14 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

just a suggestion (4.00 / 1)

wvpeach -- This is offered as a polite suggestion. I hope you will accept it as such.

To quote your own statement:

All I am saying is that if you intend to fight propaganda and lies ................. you can't do it with more propaganda and lies.   So you got to be darn sure of sources and verifiable statements before you run with them.

John Cole is one of the West Virginia bloggers who has consistently been accurate in what they post. He's been blogging for years, he's written thousands of posts/comments, and I can't think of any case when he's ever just made sh*t up. Nobody is perfect, but John Cole has definitely earned his reputation as a credible source. If for no other reason, until he shows otherwise, I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.

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by: Clem Guttata @ Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 00:15:38 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Polite suggestion accepted but my comment still stands. (0.00 / 0)

    Quote John Cole: First of all I am afraid we are going to see a lot more of this. End quote   .............  with lot more of this lighter than the rest.............   Okay????   I  guess all people in the world would know that was a link..............  well I didn't and I am pretty net savy.  So maybe John Cole wasn't thinking of little blonde West Virginia women when he made his link.   Who knows?  

  Secondly. By RAMIT PLUSHNICK-MASTI and DAN NEPHIN, Associated Press Writers Ramit Plushnick-masti And Dan Nephin, Associated Press Writers - 1 hr 39 mins ago for Yahoo.  Yahoo. ............... as I said while I was reading this blog early this afternoon police were just releasing the name of the gunman on national news.  While I was reading this post from Mr. Coles Blog.

  So- okay what have we here?

   We have some kids saying the gunman called them on his cell phone and told them he was going to die today.

   We got the same it looks like fringe young folk saying this gunman was afraid Obama was going to take his guns.

  We got a mother who obviously let her young person have guns he was not responsible enough to have in her home and the mama called police because she was afraid her own kid was going to harm her. ................  Did mama mention to the police when she called them that the son had a lot of guns?

  Nope it doesn't appear so.

  Yet mama should have known the young man living in her home had guns?

   Then what else do we have?

    A Yahoo story written by relatively unknown writters , just glad to be in the right place at the right time. Yahoo Yahoo............  A totally credible news source always 100% correct in their reporting and take the time to check sources before they report. ...........  Not!
     Yahoo and associated press are in such hurries to scoop everybody else and say Happening just minutes ago that they are often guilty of reporting before they have a clue what they are talking about.  

  And we  a blogger named John Cole ready to assign blame to this lickety split.  Ready to fear monger and say "I am afraid we will be seeing a lot more of this"  ...........  Oh my-  boogy men all around.   Is that any better than Bush's a terrorist hiding under every Americans bed?
  Nope.

  In my opinion its not one bit better.  

   My comment stands in this country its supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. We are supposed to reserve opinion until we know the facts.   And too often the nation is ready to declare somebody guilty based on the first reports from the media . And we all know national media does its job and tells the truth that is why they helped rush us head long into Iraq because of the weapons of mass destruction the media was all to happy to report they had.  

   We all know how well people like Sean Hannity and Fox news does with telling the truth.

  My point is fault is a tricky thing as is free speech.
  I don't like a bit all the right wing talk about sucession.  I don't like Sean hannity and Rush Limbaugh spouting their lies and half truths all day long on public airwaves.   But if we silence them who is next?  

   That slippery slope we wander down we might just find is impossible to climb back up.

   And there is plenty of fault to go around in this case and it looks like it started with a mother that called police on her son because they were in a fight and then went and hid in her basement according to TV news reports.

  What happened between mother and son to cause her to call the police?

   Why if she thought he was dangerous to her didn't she tell police he was armed?

  Was this some irresponsible troubled young person whose mother got fed up with him and told him to find a new place to live?   Was this some young man that saw the roof over his head , his video games and his free time slipping away?

  The article this young man was thrown out of the marines for throwing a food tray at another man..............  was this young man stable to begin with?   Doesn't sound like it.  

  Would it have really mattered who came to his door this day?   Or was this young man just ready to end his own life and take others with him as he did it?

    After all what does gun control have to do with having the police called on you by your own mother?

   What does shooting policemen who are called to your house by your mother have to do with President Obama or gun control?

  Nothing is the answer to either question.   Nothing .............. nada ............... not a darn thing to do with it.............  except if your a crazy lunatic and then nothing anybody says to you on talk radio or TV makes any difference anyway cause your a crazy lunatic to begin with and the world will always have its share of crazy loons.

   Sounds like that was what this young man was .  A troubled young man that his mother might have gotten help for if this nation didn't have such a messed up medical system.

   

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by: wvpeach @ Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 01:19:04 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

links look like this (4.00 / 2)

John Cole. See the blue? See the underline when you hover over it? See the cursor change to a pointing hand when you hover over it?

For the Orange Satan, dailykos, links show up as orange but it would not be a link here.
Things that are bold look like this John Cole.

NFTT: Support My Team or I Will Dance

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by: CA Berkeley WV @ Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 01:48:45 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Linky, linky (4.00 / 2)

I  guess all people in the world would know that was a link..............  well I didn't and I am pretty net savy.  So maybe John Cole wasn't thinking of little blonde West Virginia women when he made his link.   Who knows?

So is that why you ignored all the links I, and others, offered you about the PATH transmission line and the transmission tax?

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by: blonde moment @ Mon Apr 06, 2009 at 02:45:24 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

You mean like this? LTE in the Martinsburg Journal Saturday 4APR09 (4.00 / 1)

Don't let history repeat itself

There is going to be a tea party from 5 to 6 p.m. April 15 on the square in downtown Martinsburg. Please make up a sign and feel free to join us.

Our president, Barack Obama, and his minions have started our country down the identical path that (Adolf) Hitler used to take over Germany. The German people just stood back and watched because they trusted this great orator. Hitler told the German people what they wanted to hear. He promised them change. Sound familiar?
::::::::
I am just a homemaker who is fed up. I am on a fixed income, and my home value has decreased. Yet I am getting a 12 percent tax increase over and above the increase I have received every year for the past eight years or more. My monies can only stretch so far. Groceries cost more, electric costs more and it is going to get more expensive with the taxes Washington is going to add. Plus, oh so many more subtle taxes are being thrust upon the American people by our elected state, federal and city officials.

The 12% increase in the mil rate is probably to offset the decrease in property values. As building grinds to a halt income from permits is drying up. But somehow this women is jumping to the conclusion that the best thing to protect us from the next Hitler in the person of Bsrack Obama is to show up in front of the library with her Lipton's. Forget that the former all Republican county commission had the bright idea to freeze library funding in the face of a growing population. And what do libraries spend money on? Books. Books with facts. Books about history. Books with science. Books with critical thought.

Seventy days in and this woman is ready to start impeachment. Never mind the torture in our name authorized from the previous White House. Never mind the stealing of the previous eight years. Never mind the war crimes of the previous eight years.  Never mind the illegal wire taps. Never mind rounding up thousands of Middle Eastern Americans for no reason. Forget the voter caging, the phone bank jamming schemes, political prosecutions of the previous eight years.

Nope, her property taxes will be probably be staying the same. Glen Beck was crying on her TeeVee about his latest angst. Ten million more people voted for Sen. Obama than Sen. McCain. Magic happened on 20 January 2009. But she thinks we all became bad Germans.

At least the Virginia Republicans came to their senses. Do you think they will ask Jenna Bush' father-in-law back?

NFTT: Support My Team or I Will Dance

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by: CA Berkeley WV @ Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 03:43:53 AM UTC

Oh Please! Bush and his Comparisons to Hitler were almost unavoidable. (0.00 / 0)

   Yet did anybody jump up and say if you compare Bush to Hitler we will silence your right to speek in public?

  They tried like silly people.  But thankfully this country qurantees the right to free speech.  Even if its porno, hate speech or ideologies we do not like.  

   I can get behind ideas like the fairness doctrine.  
  As it doesn't do anybody any good to only hear one ideology without having all the facts and other ideologies put out too.

  But the right wing has as much a right to spout their nonsense as does any other fringe group in America like the KKK .

  The key is to educate people enough that they recognize wrong unethical ideological speech when they hear it.   The key is to get a better hold on the media so they do not allow out right lies to go unchallenged .   The key is to get over this idea that the American people are more interested in American Idol and will only take their news in 30 sec sound bites.

   The key is not to silence speech............  even speech we do not like.  Because once we go down that slippery slope we will not like what we find.

  The Bush administration should have proven that to folks. In 2004 and 5 bills were introduced to congress trying to say that speech against the Iraq war was hurting the troops and the war effort............ Some even tried to say protests against the war were aiding our enemies.    ............  Do I need to tell anybody the legal ramifications that would have if war protests suddenly were classified as aide to enemies? ...........  I assume not.

  Luckily even the Republican controlled congress at that time saw that was silly and completely against the constitutional right to free speech all Americans are quranteed so the bills never even made it to get voted on. Yippee ,  

  But think back folks.   If the neo cons and Bush administration had its way we all would have been silenced and our right to free speech taken away years ago.  Bush had ever major journalist in the US being spied on.

 Luckily the constitution stood and protected our rights to speak out against the Bush administration and the war.

   Now granted these right wing loons are ridiculous and their speech verges on race baiting and hate mongering.  But that just makes them look all that much more fringe and  irrelevant................   I am telling you that the attempt to curtail their speech adds fuel to the fire and gets them support.  

   Think about what they have ran on for years.  Abortion, gays, military , guns, and constituional rights.  A lot of their base are not what we would call highly educated people but they still get a vote.  Start trying to pass legislation to curtail their speech and the fire is off and rolling and their voters come out in mass.

   There are better ways and more logical ways to deal with this .  That do not involve limiting speech.

   For instance start one by one educating people as to the issues the nation faces.

   President Obama has called for more volunteer's more community activists ..........  I am with him on that.

  And millions of community activists can go a long way to start to educate people about the lunacy of the right wing and the conservatives. Given a year or two working in communities the change will be obvious.

   But start messing with constitutional rights or any of their hot button talking points and watch the right wingers come out in mass in the 2010 elections. ...........   Now that would just be stupid to encourage wouldn't it?

   And that is exactly what the hate mongers hope the left will do.

    So I can't be down with playing into their game.
   

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by: wvpeach @ Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 17:29:16 PM UTC

wtf? (4.00 / 1)

Who called for silencing their speech?

Condemn it, yes. You're making lots of leaps.

When a man embarks upon a crime, he is morally guilty of any other crime which may spring from it. Sherlock Holmes.

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by: Carnacki @ Sun Apr 05, 2009 at 18:15:41 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I refer you to Leah Rabin (4.00 / 2)

With Rep. Bachmann (R-MN) defining being in Congress as "being behind enemy lines", about the calls for armed resistance. Don't you remember where Timothy McVeigh came from? The fringe Militia movement.

For ole times sake I will refer you to this unnoticed diary of mine. There is a fine line between dissent and incite. If the point is to see your fellow American as the "other" then I can find no protection for it, like crying "Fire!" in a crowded theater.

If the right is unhappy I refer them to Article 5, not armed revolt portrayed on WATB Glenn Beck TeeVee.

If you have any fear that we might be heading toward a totalitarian state, look out.  There is something happening in our country and it ain't good.

Appomattox settled something. If you still read the newspaper you have to be saddened about all the multiple murders in the last few weeks. Some of it may be the economic pressures.

John Cole is in the Pittsburgh media market. Don't discount him getting Pittsburgh news first again, for him this was a local Stormfront  kid shooting cops. I was not comfortable with the hate the Palin stroked last summer. Were you?

About links: we don't think copy and past is good form. Yes, you will be pointed to other places to read up. Right click, open new tab. That's the way we hang. Fix that Boston Globe article < > diary yet?

NFTT: Support My Team or I Will Dance

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by: CA Berkeley WV @ Mon Apr 06, 2009 at 02:41:21 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Are or were you trying to talk to me berkley? (0.00 / 0)

    If so your post didn't make a lot of impact as it was a bit well all over the place.  

   

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by: wvpeach @ Tue Apr 07, 2009 at 02:36:24 AM UTC

wvpeach (0.00 / 0)

Wait a minute, before you calling out CA Berkeley's comment for being "all over the place," where did you get the idea anyone was trying to silence the hate mongers?

Dave Neiwart, who has documented the right wing's obsession with eliminationist rhetoric over the years, has a great post on this very topic:

This is a familiar refrain that comes up every time anyone raises a socially damning issue like this one: We're trying to oppress them, to silence their voices, by pointing out how morally and ethically bankrupt they are.

Actually, we're just pointing out how bankrupt they are. No one here has said anything about silencing their voices -- we just want them to face up to the consequences of their irresponsible rhetoric. It's called culpability: They obviously are not criminally culpable, nor likely even civilly culpable. But they are morally and ethically culpable.

We do have serious differences of opinion here. We strongly believe that there's a clear, common-sense connection between the paranoiac fearmongering that has passed for right-wing rhetoric since well before Obama's election (and has become acute since) and violence like that in Pittsburgh, or in Knoxville: horrifying tragedies, in which the sources of the criminal's unambiguous motives are that very same hysterical fearmongering -- whether it's about the evil socialists, stinking immigrants, or conspiring gun-grabbers who've taken over the country since Election Day.

You specifically accused someone of trying to silence the rightwing hate machine although from your comments it is not clear who you meant. Who did you mean and what made you leap to that conclusion?


When a man embarks upon a crime, he is morally guilty of any other crime which may spring from it. Sherlock Holmes.

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by: Carnacki @ Tue Apr 07, 2009 at 02:54:04 AM UTC

[ Parent ]