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'The effective crime'

by: Carnacki

Mon May 04, 2009 at 15:30:00 PM EDT


What hunter said:

I think we are all used to the notion that there are monsters among us: Charles Krauthammer is as divorced from both morality and reality as one could possibly be, which is precisely why he continues to retain supposedly respectable venues for his scribblings long after every one of his prognostications has proven to be as wrong as his arguments are corrupt. It is another thing, though, to find the stomach to accept that indeed, an even share of our supposed greatest minds truly find any of this to be a quandry. Can we follow this law, if important people violated it? Or would asking that our laws be followed even by the powerful be -- shudder -- vengeful?

Mora says, as cited by Hunt, that prosecutions of political elites would "tear the country apart." It is astonishing how well-travelled that particular canard is. It made it from the age of Nixon to our present day with surprisingly little wear and tear, so carefully has it been tended to by our political betters (mostly the same tenders now as then, uncannily enough.)

But again, what is the greater danger to a nation: that the law be applied to the politically powerful, or that the politically powerful be declared immune from inconvenient laws? Is this truly something worth pondering? Is there any bulb so dim, in our political string of lights, to honestly, genuinely believe that this country cannot stomach abiding by the laws it sets out for itself?

It seems an argument that could only spring from insipid cowardice. The author of the "tear our country apart" argument is saying, by proxy, that they themselves cannot bear to see the law applied in a particular case, and fear chaos because they naturally assume the rest of the nation is as corrupt as they are, or as enamored with the privileged as the privileged themselves are. I think neither is likely to be the case, but I am fairly certain that a continued history of immunity from the consequences from their actions would be a corrupting influence.

I am honestly not sure what else could possibly be said. Last week saw President Obama state, directly: "I believe waterboarding is torture." He need not have put the qualifier, "I believe," because waterboarding has been considered torture since long, long before we currently pretended at a debate about such a thing. Torture is a violation of both American and international law.

That should be the last words on the subject from the president's mouth: from here we should expect to see not a "truth commission", or a "blue-ribbon panel", or any of the other vacuous approximations of justice that are hastily constructed when something abominable is done by somebody too significant to be merely judged by the standards and laws held out for every last one of the rest of us, but a criminal investigation that uncovers what was done, how it was done, and who did it.

The entire post is well worth reading.

Carnacki :: 'The effective crime'
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David Waldman: Torture "may be necessary in the future" (4.00 / 2)
after the Ashcroft and Gonzales dog and pony show. KagroX adds his two cents at dKos and CM both. I especially appreciated Metero Blades comment, cuz I am thinking the same think


As some of us have been saying since ...

...forever, if those who gave orders to torture are let off the hook, then you can set your timer right now on how long it will be before some new crew (and a remnant of the old crew) do it again. \

Why-oh-why is this so hard for people to understand?

"The truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it." -Flannery O'Connor

Maybe as a Catholic I carry extra guilt around on this issue from the ghosts of the past. I started to think, since we have been watching the PBS pieces, about Marie Gunoe and the Cherokee and how we treated them, then and now. And how long did it take to try to rectify the hysterical treatment of Nisei, forty years? I started a diary, but it was too depressing.

It takes the Church hundreds. And what went on under Cardinal Law and out in Calif. is just like the recycling of those on my list you linked to in another diary.

How long was Sen. Sam's committee going? Let it roll on at DOJ. There is no one except Bybee to impeach. Polls, schmolls. I have a six foot Czech to show you.

NFTT: Support My Team or I Will Dance


Accountability lacking in our Govt. (4.00 / 1)
Until something new happens in our federal govt., ie the powers that be are held accountable for their "executive decisions" then nothing will actually "change" the status quo in this country no matter who the leader is.  Why don't the leaders understand that it's the "double standard" that exists in this country that eats away at citizens psyche and causes them to go away from democracy and politics.

JB (0.00 / 0)
Too many citizens are fine with that double standard and don't believe in accountability.

When a man embarks upon a crime, he is morally guilty of any other crime which may spring from it. Sherlock Holmes.

[ Parent ]
Apathy breeds a DS (4.00 / 1)
I disagree in that when you have the apathy we have in this country where folks could care less that they are blessed with a democracy (at least in principle), food on the table, a roof over their heads etc., you've been out there Carnacki, you know of which I speak.  Folks are just so self-centered and that keeps the DS going, going and going into what seems like a very long time. BHO promised change, now lets see some!

[ Parent ]
Markos says it right! (4.00 / 1)
In two years if there is no improvement on the economy, Obama should be held accountable and so should democrats because we were elected on the promise that we start to fix the mess the Republicans left us.  If we don't,then we're not doing our jobs.  And I don't have any problem with being held accountable because one thing this country lacked for so long, and the reason we're in this mess, is a lack of accountability.

From alternet posted yesterday


[ Parent ]
Why is Article I first? (4.00 / 1)
Sorry, I should never blog while in a red haze. There is a birthday on Groundhog's Day in our family. In the Bill Murray movie he had to keep repeating the day until the Invisible Pink Unicorn thought he got it right, or something like that.

It's that it is now a tenet of Republican political philosophy that illegal and unconstitutional practices can be sterilized by order of the President.
::::::::
But worse, the question of whether or not a President may order illegal and unconstitutional actions at his discretion is also a "policy difference."
::::::::
The question of whether or not the President shall have unlimited power to order extralegal actions and excuse them by fiat, we are urged to believe, is now one we settle at the ballot box.

Having first voted in 1972, personally this moonbat unitary executive dick stuff just pisses me off. Tricky Dick, Dark Dick. So just one election, and the vagaries of the electoral college, every four years to protect what the framers set up. No way dude.

No matter what your issue is, at heart, you're dependent on a continuing and consistent respect for the law. Because without it, none of your work on politics and policy is worth anything the moment the White House falls to someone who's not you.
::::::::
if it's accepted as a legitimate tenet of Republican governing philosophy that all of those laws can be safely ignored or otherwise set aside, you'll have gained nothing from your work
::::::::
I'm unsure what barriers you think remain in the way of doing the same on any other issue.

Washington could have been king and he went home. I don't like authoritarians here on earth.

And just to bring this back to Congress -- this is Congress Matters, after all -- the responsibility for checking what Republicans claim ought to be considered part of the gloss on executive power belongs with the Legislative and Judicial branches.
::::::::
They have already told you that it is their belief -- their interpretation of the four corners of the Constitution -- that they have the right to order it if they can win just one national election (versus Democrats' constant scrambling to win 300+ localized contests).


NFTT: Support My Team or I Will Dance

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