What to do? Health insurance

professional courtesy (0.00 / 0)

"Back in the day" doctors once treated each other's families for free... it was a professional courtesy thing where they essentially provided health insurance for each other.

Sounds rather quaint now, doesn't it?

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by: Clem Guttata @ Fri May 08, 2009 at 00:10:44 AM UTC

wvbibi (4.00 / 1)

First, congratulations to your husband and good for him.

Second, this is bigger in scale than what you ask, but interesting in concept.

I found it looking for something else involving healthcare co-ops, but couldn't find it. But perhaps your husband could "barter" for healthcare with another medical provider?

I've got this set to be promoted tomorrow. Front page seems crowded right now and I don't want it lost in the shuffle.


When a man embarks upon a crime, he is morally guilty of any other crime which may spring from it. Sherlock Holmes.

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by: Carnacki @ Fri May 08, 2009 at 01:26:10 AM UTC

dont get any (0.00 / 0)

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by: stevewvu @ Fri May 08, 2009 at 16:43:36 PM UTC

or (0.00 / 0)

pending your ability to bring down the system, do what i do...pay for private insurance for you, your employees and their dependants...costs me just under 95,000 dollars per year for 8 individuals and families...that includes funding an HSA as part of their compensation package...and treat the patients without insurance for free or upon reasonable terms...

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by: stevewvu @ Fri May 08, 2009 at 16:54:10 PM UTC

Congradulations on the New Practice. (0.00 / 0)

   Well, what I would suggest is that one of you works where health insurance is offered.  Such is the plight of many today having to keep at least part time jobs that allow them to purchase insurance.

  Try the VA .   They hire part time docs and you can buy into their system of insurance.  

  You don't want to go without because one hospitalization can literally bankrupt you.

 Naturally though if the software program takes off he will be a millionaire soon enough and then you can afford to self insure. As long as one of you does not come down with a chronic expensive disease like heart problems, kidney, cancer, or diabetes and need dialysis or anything long term.   That king of long term care can drain the bank accounts of even a millionaire quick.

   I know a young family of doctors that are refusing to take medical insurance at the practice they run out of their home.  I'll try to remember to call them and ask if they have health insurance for themselves.  

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by: wvpeach @ Sat May 09, 2009 at 05:20:46 AM UTC

Russell Mokhiber this morning. REPLAY at 5PM on WAMU-3 (0.00 / 0)

Diane Rehm show, Steve Roberts is the guest host. I caught his segment today 5/11, called in from Berkeley Springs by phone.  

This is how I stream their HD channel in WinXP:

''C:Program FilesWindows Media Playerwmplayer.exe'' http : / www.wamu.org / streams / live / 3 / win

NFTT: Support My Team or I Will Dance

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by: CA Berkeley WV @ Mon May 11, 2009 at 15:05:34 PM UTC

Are You Serious? (0.00 / 0)

Is this serious?

"There is also the moral issue of us having some wonderful plan while many of his patients will have to be without."

I don't understand what the moral issue is? Is it morally wrong to drive a nicer car? Live in a home with more square footage? Take a nicer vacation? Have a bigger then average bank account? Have a job that makes more money then average?

Is somebody that makes more then the average person immoral if they don't give it away down to the point where they make what their average customers/patients/neighbors make?  This is a pretty strict standard to live and more power to you if you live below the average means of an average West Virginian but I hope you don't judge others by this standard.  And even an HSA won't work for the standard that you are grading by as the average person doesn't do much savings of any type so good luck.

Sincerely,

The Freedom Thinker

TheFreedomThinker.com

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by: The Freedom Thinker @ Mon May 11, 2009 at 17:59:15 PM UTC

morality (4.00 / 1)

Simple answer is: yes.

I don't understand what the moral issue is? Is it morally wrong to drive a nicer car? Live in a home with more square footage? Take a nicer vacation? Have a bigger then average bank account? Have a job that makes more money then average?

Is somebody that makes more then the average person immoral if they don't give it away down to the point where they make what their average customers/patients/neighbors make?

I don't agree with the way you've asked your questions, but, yes, those are questions of morality (and ethics).

Framing the question as a comparison between two people (or versus the local/collective average) invests power in one set of ethics.

There are other ways to discuss personal consumption that promote different systems of ethics. For example, we could talk about using more than we need, using more than is sustainable, and offering a living wage in return for services rendered.

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by: Clem Guttata @ Mon May 11, 2009 at 19:04:17 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Pretty Harsh Judgement There (0.00 / 0)

I framed the question how the author stated the post.  A comparision between two classes of peoples average ownership of health insurance.  

As the simple answer is yes then she shouldn't do a HSA because the savings rate for the average person isn't very high either and I think increasing a savings rate for a HSA would then be immoral as well.  

As for earning a living wage in return for services... Myself, I'm an evil SUV driving, six figure making, evil person in from this definition and would never work as hard as I do for a living wage I'd quit.  But that's me.

Sincerely,

The Freedom Thinker

TheFreedomThinker.com

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by: The Freedom Thinker @ Mon May 11, 2009 at 21:31:19 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Too shy to put the naming calling here also? (0.00 / 0)

Yeah, yeah, I know everyone has health care "freedom" now, they can go to the emergency room, like Dubya said. Ask a family practitioner in a rural settings whether they can treat a person with symptoms in their office or whether they have to call a bean counter first?

wvbibi was wondering about an HSA for themselves, not as the answer for all of West Virginia. Of course you may not understand the moral issue here, you've gone Galt.

The latest for-profit-over-life that is being pulled is cancellation going back to the anniversary date of the policy after you make a claim and think you have insurance. The freedom now all is in the hand of corporate profits, not health care professionals nor patients.

Those in power have health insurance, well except for Sen. Brown, who refuses it until there is a better system for everyone else. So why would anyone think this is a problem if they come from this circle? We spend way too much money as a % of GDP for lousy outcomes compared to other countries with other systems.

I suspect you were on the wrong side of the last two election cycles, too.

Freedom is just another word for nothing else to lose--Chris Kristopherson

NFTT: Support My Team or I Will Dance

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by: CA Berkeley WV @ Mon May 11, 2009 at 20:44:54 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Me Shy? Never... (0.00 / 0)

Interesting...

"I suspect you were on the wrong side of the last two election cycles, too."

Who me? I'm registered democrat and vote very conservative independent.  So, I come up about 70/30 in elections in W.Va. usually so I'm more on the wrong side then not but only by about 20%.  I usually don't vote incumbant lately because they all are ticking me off.  Except Manchin I like him.

"Ask a family practitioner in a rural settings whether they can treat a person with symptoms in their office or whether they have to call a bean counter first?"

As a top bean counter for a health care facility in West Virginia I know the answer to the question about providers needing to call the bean counter very well.  They don't have to call it's called a 330 Health Care facility and it is federally funded health care systems across the state that provide free care so nobody has to call the bean counter.

To say it is immoral to have health insurance when others don't is a pretty dumb thing to say especially when asking about HSA this is plain logic.  It may not be nice but then calling somebody like me immoral in the post isn't nice either.  So, no I'm not that shy.  I just like logical debate.

Sincerely,

The Freedom Thinker

TheFreedomThinker.com

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by: The Freedom Thinker @ Mon May 11, 2009 at 21:47:00 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

You didn't call wvbibi dumb dumb here (0.00 / 0)

And yes, from the doctor's mouth, in the office the decision to treat immediately, which in some cases as a dramatic effect on outcome, cannot be made without a phone call. If you are talking about sending someone to a 330 facility, of which I do not know, you have delayed care by definition.

This couple is working toward the goal of everyone in, nobody out. Those without insurance have already have delayed seeking care for chronic illness, making their treatment be more expensive and have lower success, a dumb way to run a railroad. T. R. Reid has no complaints about either English of Japanese national health care during his stints abroad as a foreign correspondent with children. His complaint was with the editing of his second Frontline piece on the sick American system.

Why is protecting private health insurance companies profit margin freedom? Freedom to choose where there are too many choices has made us all more miserable. Milton Freidman ideas as embrace by the Alan Greenspans of the world have been a disaster for 99% of this country. Mr. Greenspan admitted he held a wrong world view for forty years. Two income families have fallen in a trap as the cost of the basics have risen to swallow the second income, just as the finance industry, including insurance, swallowed more and more of corporate profits, producing nothing for the 99% except bubbles in the economy.

This desire to let the market provide for health care is perverse, hence wvbibi's desire to not participate in the system. Moral, ethical, call it what you want. To me it smacks of principle.

NFTT: Support My Team or I Will Dance

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by: CA Berkeley WV @ Tue May 12, 2009 at 16:03:00 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

actually (0.00 / 0)

wvbibi was asking how to find a way for her husband, apparently educated and capabale of earning a living, to realize his BIG DREAM yet mitigate against the temproary or permanent finacial penalty they may suffer pursuing the BIG DREAM  by having the rest of us subsidize their health coverage...now theres a moral question if i ever saw one

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by: stevewvu @ Tue May 12, 2009 at 13:12:48 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

tell that to my two friends that have died for lack of health care . (0.00 / 0)

freedom thinker

 I know one young lady who died for lack of treatment from stomach cancer.  She left behind three young children and a husband.   Her husband had just lost his job at a steel plant who jumped ship for cheap over seas labor.   Then she came down with this stomach problem , course no health care facility bothered to really do anything for her until it was too late because they had no insurance.

  Then there was Kenny worked at the same steel plant and had a heart attack right after the plant closed.  We at the church were trying to raise the money to get him the bypass surgery he needed when he died of another heart attack.

  Both these folks attended my church and were good decent people who most likely would still be alive had the steel plant they got their insurance through not closed up and left the country.

  So freedom thinker your assertion that people without insurance can get medical care is way off.  Free clinics do not treat cancer or offer heart surgery.  Hospitals by law must stabilize but they don't treat chronic illness without insurance either.  People who get chronic illness have to hope they can last the year it takes to get on disability and cancer is not considered a disability issue unless they can prove they can't work.  So people do die from lack of health care in this nation and I have seen it up close and personal .  

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by: wvpeach @ Tue May 12, 2009 at 15:26:51 PM UTC