Coal miners trapped in Mingo County (flooding)

checking WSAZ-TV (4.00 / 1)

32 hours after being trapped at 10PM Friday, they were able to walk out.

Happy Mother's Day

After his rescue, WSAZ.com spoke with John Dillon, who told us he slept most of the time. The miners also passed time by just talking.

"You'd think we hate each other, but deep down we have nothing but love and respect for each other," John Dillon said. "We kept our spirits up though."

His mother, who had gone to the site earlier Saturday to wait on word, noted the significance of the Sunday rescue.

"Best Mother's Day present ever."

NFTT: Support My Team or I Will Dance

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by: CA Berkeley WV @ Sun May 10, 2009 at 16:32:03 PM UTC

wise move (0.00 / 0)

Thanks for the update CA Berkeley WV.

Smart move on John Dillon's part. Sleeping is the best way to pass the time that uses the least oxygen. If there was any potential for a crisis sleeping in good option for conserving energy and limiting oxygen usage.

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by: Clem Guttata @ Sun May 10, 2009 at 23:34:48 PM UTC

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Mountaintop Removal involved??? (1.00 / 1)

Yes, I know 6.5 inches of rain is an excessive amount and can cause disaster on its own. But I want to know just how much mountaintop removal in Mingo and Logan Counties contributed to this disaster.

Is anyone of consequence going to ask that question? Governor Manchin? Senator Rockefeller? President Obama? I doubt it.

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by: WV26003 @ Mon May 11, 2009 at 14:06:26 PM UTC

Gov. Wise was willing to go there (0.00 / 0)

Local Guard spent a month cleaning up after the 2003 flood. The Gov. chief of staff was with the Gov. and Sen. Rockefeller during a visit to my workplace, so we talked. He claimed that Bob was willing to look at the relationship between the flooding and valley fill. This was before the 2002 election. We sort of had a real DEP then. Then the affair came out and his power was toast. I always considered that cause and effect. Took him out of the pool of candidates to replace Sen. Byrd also.  

NFTT: Support My Team or I Will Dance

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by: CA Berkeley WV @ Mon May 11, 2009 at 14:49:43 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

It's such a shame (0.00 / 0)

Governor Wise was the first Governor in years to actually recognize the existance of the Northern Panhandle. I was so mad about the affair because I would have voted for Wise in any election possible.

Now, I'm a Kessler man. I just hope "real" West Virginia, as we call it, can handle it.

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by: WV26003 @ Mon May 11, 2009 at 16:07:29 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Lets blame everything on Mountaintop removal (0.00 / 0)

It contributed absolutely none to the flooding.  Theres some surface mines in the area but none at all near the deep mine where the flooding occurred.  FYI-Surface mines do not create water.  6.5 inches of water over a few hours is going to flood an area no matter what exists there.  No one of consequence is going to ask that question because they know it had nothing to do with it.  I still don't understand the link anyway.  A strip job is flat so how does it contribute to flooding?  Where is water going to fun faster? Down a slope or on a flat area?  Theres ditches and ponds that control runoff.  I live near the mine on Ben Creek and the hollows and drains where there were valley fills with ponds took a lot less damage.  Lets blame more things on Mountain Top Removal.....
Mountaintop Removal Kills Kittens
Mountaintop Removal Increases Teen Pregnancy

Give me a break.

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by: wv-eng @ Mon May 11, 2009 at 22:42:10 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

No top soil or vegetation (0.00 / 0)

It's a question of no top soil or vegetation to absorb the rainwater.

When a man embarks upon a crime, he is morally guilty of any other crime which may spring from it. Sherlock Holmes.

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by: Carnacki @ Tue May 12, 2009 at 01:34:03 AM UTC

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Sorry, I usually check links before I post (0.00 / 0)

The state has completely redone its web addressing system, moving away from the first standard of wv dot state dot us. The state documents that support what I said are now stored here.

It probably killed some kittens. Read a reporter that has been covering this industry for a while, Ken Ward.

The flood in Thatcher this month was due to a sediment ditch breaking. You registered today and talk all you want. I work with P. E.s, but I have other letters after my name, so I hope you are not just a hit and run dirt engineer.

So, yes it does. Read the 2001 story from the Gazette, Mr. used-to-be-i-couldn't-spell-enginere-now-i-are-one. Read Coal Tattoo

Randy Huffman, secretary of the West Virginia Department of Environmental Protection, said his inspectors cited Central Appalachian Mining for the incident. :::::::: DEP spokeswoman Kathy Cosco says agency inspectors have also cited a Rawl Sales operation in Mingo County because two culverts failed, sending water into the yards and basements of nearby homes.

The website that collected the hearing data is here for 2001, here for 2002 and here for 2003/2004. This website is written by a joournalist, published in US New and World Report.

Yes, when DEP worked for the citizens, they determined that the floods were made worse from the removal of topsoil and timber in the mountain top removal, and the sediment ditches and valley fill contributed to the mudslide mess. Then the Bush administration changed section 404, making things even better, not.

NFTT: Support My Team or I Will Dance

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by: CA Berkeley WV @ Tue May 12, 2009 at 04:17:01 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Already saturated ground and large downpour (0.00 / 0)

Actually do have PE after my name but not in dirt.  I also agree that MTR can sometimes add to the problem of flooding.  Anything not designed/constructed propoerly has a higher chance to fail.  That includes, sediment ditches, bridges,houses,buildings,electronics, etc.  After reading the link in your post it sounds like the problem at Thacker was either the sediment ditch was improperly designed or was built on a pre-law site that caused it to fail.  Either way the flooding was caused by 4-7 inches of rainfall over several hours.  I live in Mingo county and trust me, you can see quite a few areas where the fills and ponds protected the people below them.  Most important, you can see a lot of areas where there was absolutely no strip mining that had mud slides and trees flowing down the hill side wiping out houses.  Theres a lot more areas here that have NOT been strip mined than areas that have been strip mined.  The area had seen about 2 weeks of rain before getting the downpour that caused the mess.  The ground can only absord so much and it was already saturated (vegetation or not).

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by: wv-eng @ Tue May 12, 2009 at 14:34:10 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

teen pregnancy (0.00 / 0)

Since you brought it up, I just have to ask.

How are teen pregnancy rates down in Mingo County compared to the national average?

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by: Clem Guttata @ Tue May 12, 2009 at 14:43:06 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

LOL on Mingo Teenage pregnancy (0.00 / 0)

I did a quick google search just for curiosity but couldn't find anything listed by county.  WV itself has a lower rate than the national average. Of course I know 4-wheelin' on an old strip job has lead to other things.

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by: wv-eng @ Tue May 12, 2009 at 16:40:05 PM UTC

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Floods and mining (0.00 / 0)

A first hand account of the Mother's Day Flood (with pics).

A summary of mining impact on communities, including flooding.

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by: Clem Guttata @ Tue May 12, 2009 at 10:05:53 AM UTC

wv eng has a point. (0.00 / 0)

  A valid one.   As a homebuilder for over 18 years I can tell you that water run off has to be handled correctly.
 Not that I am smart enough to know exactly how it should be done at all times.  But I know some men who can go into projects and make sure that water gets routed correctly to get the least destructive run off in times of huge rain falls.   With the excessive rain wv eng is describing any area if going to have problems doesn't matter if mining is going on there or not.

  And Clem ............. Ken Ward, while I am still holding off from making my mind up about that journalist. That is the fellow that made all sorts of conjecture about Gov. Manchin and the blair mountain historical site. Conjecture , instead of facts.   A ethical reporter would find out the facts before getting online and smearing the name of our gov, without facts.

  So at this point I am not that impressed with Ken Ward.  

  But do let me know if he decides to start reporting facts instead of his own opinion arrived upon at the drop of his hat.  

 I have been following Mr. Ward now since you brought him to my attention.  I have yet to see a follow up from him where he talked to residents of Blair mountain to see what is really going on.  

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by: wvpeach @ Tue May 12, 2009 at 15:17:13 PM UTC

He is a reporter at the Gazette for how long? (0.00 / 0)

So I think you have to read what is in the paper as that, and he left his conjuncture to his blog. Is that fair enough? He has been covering the state for a long time, and Joe has been in politics a long time. Ken may have an insight into how he operates watching him in the legislature, as Secretary of State and now in his second term as governor.

I am still puzzled as to why you think Mr. Ward should go back over the statements submitted by the residents on Blair Mountain. The second pass by the coal companies were duplicates of original objections. To me the more interesting question is why the lawyers though they could fool the feds or the state historic commission or the governor by claiming the eight were "brand new" objections.

The recent floods have reminded me that under Gov. Wise the DEP was told to find facts, not the mining interests. A lot of us now feel that DEP is protecting the wrong crowd. Does the E stand for Environment or Energy? Does the P stand for Protection or Promotion?

NFTT: Support My Team or I Will Dance

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by: CA Berkeley WV @ Tue May 12, 2009 at 16:25:19 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

A lot of opinion (0.00 / 0)

I have an open mind on the subject and can honestly see both sides.  I followed the links he had listed and most of them looked like a kid threw them together and were full of opinion vs fact.  I know vegetation and soil help to hold back the water and absorb it but so do the perimeter ditches and even the fills to a point. The thing that bugs me the most is that after the area had almost 2 weeks of solid rain we got 4 to 7 inshes over a few hours and people want to start pointing their fingers at MTR.  Theres not much thats going to hold up to that amount of rain, mined or not.  One area on Ben Creek in Mingo County has been stripped of timber in prep for a road job....no vegetation at all on it.  It didn't move or wash out at all.  Yet areas close by with no disturbance at all, mining or otherwise, slid in taking trees and mud with it.  Like I said in a previous post, driving around I can see places that were protected by the ponds,ditches and the fills.  

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by: wv-eng @ Tue May 12, 2009 at 17:03:43 PM UTC

[ Parent ]