Steny Hoyer: Investigate torture

facts is (0.00 / 0)

pelosi, rockefeller etc knew, or get this, SHOULD HAVE KNOWN, that three of the eight or so billion people in the world were being subjected to harsh interrogation tactics...i wish they'd just come out and admit it so i can thank them for taking steps to keep america safe...

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by: stevewvu @ Wed May 13, 2009 at 17:27:39 PM UTC

steve (0.00 / 0)

Name ONE attack stopped by torture. George Washington wants to have words with you and your ilk:

"should any American soldier be so base and infamous as to injur[e] any [of them]... I do most earnestly enjoin you to bring him to such severe and exemplary punishment as the enormity of the crime may require. Should it extend to death itself, it will not be disproportional to its guilt at such a time and in such a cause." Any officer who failed to heed this direction, he said, would bring "shame, disgrace and ruin to themselves and their country."

By the way, it's more than 3 people who were tortured. I thought you right wingers opposed moral relativism. I guess you were against it until you were for it.

When a man embarks upon a crime, he is morally guilty of any other crime which may spring from it. Sherlock Holmes.

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by: Carnacki @ Wed May 13, 2009 at 17:46:29 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

dont change (0.00 / 0)

the subject....pelosi, rockefeller knew or should have known...correct?

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by: stevewvu @ Wed May 13, 2009 at 18:28:58 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

steve (0.00 / 0)

Actually, you'd be the one changing the subject as Hoyer points out. But if you read the other recent diaries regarding Rockefeller, you see he was doing things behind the scenes on the torture issue and the Bybee memos were probably created as a response to his raising questions on the issue. Should he have done more? You've been on the site long enough to know I think he should have, but he was doing what he thought was best. I don't follow Pelosi's activities closely so I don't know what she learned or when. But we do know from what Porter Goss said that Pelosi did not know until much later.  

When a man embarks upon a crime, he is morally guilty of any other crime which may spring from it. Sherlock Holmes.

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by: Carnacki @ Wed May 13, 2009 at 18:46:00 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

exsqeeze me, don't pinch that dwarf, hand me the pliers (0.00 / 0)

limited briefings violate the law, just as disclosing top secret material does. and as members of the minority in 2002, you would have had them do what, other than for example Jay's handwritten letter about warrantless wiretapping?

if little georgie did not get the whole truth, what do you think they were telling the minority party? the WH had shown such total disdain for the oversight role of congress, do you really think they laid out the whole enchilada?

NFTT: Support My Team or I Will Dance

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by: CA Berkeley WV @ Wed May 13, 2009 at 19:48:59 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Let's see what a former CIA counterterrorism official has to say (0.00 / 0)

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05...

She thinks the little game Cheney's people played with Congress was actually part of the criminal conspiracy.

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by: Calhouner @ Wed May 13, 2009 at 23:44:38 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

answer the question (0.00 / 0)

pelosi knew or should have known...correct

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by: stevewvu @ Thu May 14, 2009 at 19:15:25 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

NO (0.00 / 0)

how much else had the Bush administration hidden from Congressional oversight? Do you think that even Goss would be on her side just for kicks about whether they were told? Now you think that because of "woman's intuition" that Rep. Pelosi, ranking minority member in 2002, should have just know what those bad boys were up to behind closed doors?

NFTT: Support My Team or I Will Dance

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by: CA Berkeley WV @ Thu May 14, 2009 at 22:19:27 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

steve, you answer this question (0.00 / 0)

Yes, she should have known. Except it looks more and more like the CIA lied to her and others in Congress as part of their coverup.

Now you answer my question. We shouldn't rape children in front of their mothers or at any other time, right?

You do know that's what happened, right?

You do know that when you claim it was just "three" people tortured, you're lying to yourself, right?

You do know that there were tapes of the rapes, right? That the screams of the boys being sodomized in front of their mothers can be heard on the audio? You're not fine with that, right?

Or are you?

When a man embarks upon a crime, he is morally guilty of any other crime which may spring from it. Sherlock Holmes.

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by: Carnacki @ Fri May 15, 2009 at 02:37:52 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Why not pick on this guy? (0.00 / 0)

Because Nancy is a *itch who should be dealt with accordingly even though The CIA Made Up Two Briefing Sessions

Bob Graham just appeared on WNYC's Brian Lehrer Show. In addition to repeating earlier reports that he was never briefed on waterboarding, Graham revealed that the first time he asked the CIA when he was briefed on torture, it claimed it had briefed him on two dates when no briefing took place.

Or John Cole calls it Just Making Shit Up, or is it slam dunk, Mr. President?

BTW--isn't Bob Graham the fellow who has a journal of EVERYTHING he has done for the past 50 years or something? I vaguely remember a piece about that in something like 60 Minutes, but teh google is failing me. If I am remembering correctly, his obsession with keeping a journal is so fanatical I thought it was OCD. If I am right, then Bob Graham is the absolute worst person for the CIA to be playing these games

.

Well, John was right. Sen. Graham likes to keep a journal! And George Wills thinks it show self-discipline.

NFTT: Support My Team or I Will Dance

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by: CA Berkeley WV @ Fri May 15, 2009 at 03:07:39 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

CA Berkeley (0.00 / 0)

He's just trying to distract. I wonder if he's trying to distract himself as part of his self-deception or if he's trying to get others to join him in his deception.

When a man embarks upon a crime, he is morally guilty of any other crime which may spring from it. Sherlock Holmes.

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by: Carnacki @ Fri May 15, 2009 at 03:57:40 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

and with respect to your first question (0.00 / 0)

i am waiting for that info to come out and expect obama to tell us...but even if there wasnt i dont care....

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by: stevewvu @ Wed May 13, 2009 at 18:31:38 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

steve (0.00 / 0)

Why are you lying to yourself then?

When a man embarks upon a crime, he is morally guilty of any other crime which may spring from it. Sherlock Holmes.

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by: Carnacki @ Wed May 13, 2009 at 18:47:36 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

stevewvu, save your ignorant "facts is" talking points for your stupid freeper pals. (4.00 / 1)

Apparently the knee-jerk neocon calling himself "stevewvu" believes that that as long as the US tortures a relatively low ratio of people, it's okay.

By suggesting that Cheney authorized the torture of only "3 or so per billion",  stevewvu's revealed himself as either

1. an ignorant neocon tool, or

2. a lying stooge.

Since he doesn't provide links or sources for his statements, the jury is still out as to just how stupid he really is. Either way,  stevewvu is flat wrong about the numbers of prisoners being tortured while in US custody.

According to existing records, U.S. "detainees" have died from being tortured at Asadadad, Bagram, and Gardez in Afghanistan and at Abu Ghraib, Camp Whitehorse, Basra, Mosul, Tikrit, and Bucca in Iraq.  And that doesn't take into account those who have survived. Perhaps stevewvu's definition of torture excludes those who have been murdered, and except for "3 or so per billions", he feels that the rest have been enjoying frat-style hazing in resort style luxury at Club Gitmo. That's what Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity Glenn Beck and Michelle Malkin would have us all believe.

Anyone wondering why the CIA destroyed the videos of their torture techniques should soon get a pretty vivid undersatnding of what extent they tortured prisoners.

Released after being imprisoned and tortured for years, one victim is revealing how Cheney's CIA thugs used a scalpel on his privates some 30 times in 1 session. Yet he was released apparently after never having been prosecuted.

Holding in custody for 6-1/2 years without charge and torturing him to then simply return him to Great Britain doesn't sound like something America would ever do.

It makes me wonder exactly what the CIA was really trying to force him into doing.

So is that YOUR idea of the American way? Is that how YOU want American soldiers to be treated in the hands of the enemy, stevewvu?

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by: One Citizen @ Wed May 13, 2009 at 21:45:08 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

stevewvu, even if the CIA lied? (0.00 / 0)

Marcy Wheeler knows how to read and absorb and connect the dots. She has done all that and points out that your constant desire to shift this to the minority from 2001 to 2007 is impossible.

Give it up: they tortured for a lie, before the OLC memos were issued. The OLC memos where a back door legal rationalization of Cheney's sadistic insistence that more torture woudl produce the connection between Iraq and al Quaeda. If they stopped torturing during the second term, who kept you safe?

NFTT: Support My Team or I Will Dance

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by: CA Berkeley WV @ Thu May 14, 2009 at 17:07:56 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

so many pictures, so few terrorists (0.00 / 0)

three people where drowned and revived, again and again
all under the watchful eye of our own version of Dr. Mengala with a nice piece of backdated paper from King George

how many have died in detention?
how many have disappeared?
where are KSM's children?

many, many more were subjected to other forms of whatever you are calling it today, but we point it out as a flaw in other dictatorships around the world

NFTT: Support My Team or I Will Dance

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by: CA Berkeley WV @ Thu May 14, 2009 at 22:42:46 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Any body watch Sen. Whithouse's (D-RI) hearing this morning? (0.00 / 0)

FBI interrogator Soufan, behind a screen, testified that he had relevant information for Abu Zubaydah. within an hour, the only information from him that proved reliable, using stand interrogation techniques.

The rest of it, BY CONTRACTORS WHO TOOK OVER, was torture for a lie, the lie about an al Queda connection to Iraq and WMD. There was no disagreement on this case between the FBI and CIA in the field. Phillip Zelikow talked about heated discussion in the White House Situation Room.

Even Sen. Lindsay Graham (R-SC) stated that we need to maintain the moral high ground, while pointing out the difference between police interrogation and intelligence interrogations. Soufan said Pres. Bush was only told part of the truth about how effective different techniques were.

so stevewvu, you are still defending a lie, a lie that cost many kids lives as the many in Iraq turned against us when Abu Gharib was uncovered. The rot came from the head of this fish.

NFTT: Support My Team or I Will Dance

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by: CA Berkeley WV @ Wed May 13, 2009 at 19:29:56 PM UTC

stevewvu, listen to yourself (0.00 / 0)

It's the girl's fault, like Eve made Adam eat the apple, it is always the girl's fault.

EIT is sanitized so I don't have to bother my beautiful mind with that other word people keep using.

NFTT: Support My Team or I Will Dance

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by: CA Berkeley WV @ Thu May 14, 2009 at 22:30:42 PM UTC