The Public Option urges you to call Senator Rockefeller

Dammit! (0.00 / 0)

"I decided it was time to stand up and set the record straight...as do 77% of the American people."

Sources:

1. "New Poll: 77 Percent Support 'Choice' Of Public Option," The Huffington Post, August 20, 2009
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=5179...

Please stop citing this poll - It's Wrong, and if it becomes the center of our argument it will bite us on the ass. Seriously, we are not Bill O'Reilly or Hannity or Rush. We should not knowingly use false statistics to bolster our case.

Nate Silver explains why the survey USA poll shows over 70% of Republicans "supporting" a public http://www.fivethirtyeight.com...

As I wrote before:

"Importance" is a notoriously vague concept in public opinion polling and may be separate and distinct from asking someone whether or not they support a particular policy. How might someone respond to this question, for instance, if they had particularly strong feelings against a public option? Would they say that it was "not at all important", or would they say that it was "extremely important"? Conversely, how would someone respond if they had a weak preference for a public option, but didn't consider it an especially important component of health care reform?

NBC/WSJ had previously used this phraseology, which I criticized at the time. Unfortunately, it was resurrected by MoveOn.org in a poll conducted through SurveyUSA. "Importance" and "support" are not by any means synonymous concepts.

Really, this needs to stop.

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by: Bobzim @ Wed Sep 23, 2009 at 22:41:57 PM UTC

if it is over 50% ARE YOU OK??? (0.00 / 0)

I think the WSJ poll had 40% opposed to public option. What is the problem?
Your link is to an AUGUST article at 538, and it has BEEN removed by Nate!!!

NFTT: Support My Team or I Will Dance

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by: CA Berkeley WV @ Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 02:43:57 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Yes, it was an Aug post about an Aug poll. (0.00 / 0)

and if it was removed by Nate, how did I link to it?

It's a ridiculously flawed poll, and anyone who tries to use it is ridiculous as well. Stop it.

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by: Bobzim @ Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 09:02:41 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Bob (0.00 / 0)

What you linked to goes to this:

Page not found
Sorry, the page you were looking for in the blog FiveThirtyEight: Politics Done Right does not exist.
Go to blog homepage

Perhaps the old post is saved in your cache. But that's what showed up when I clicked on your link.

When a man embarks upon a crime, he is morally guilty of any other crime which may spring from it. Sherlock Holmes.

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by: Carnacki @ Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 14:06:58 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Correct link (0.00 / 0)

You added an extra colon at the end of your link.

Here's the correct link.

Even then, it's a much more nuanced critique than your blanket condemnation.

Indeed, though you continue to say how there's no support for the public option among the public, in the post you cite, Nate Silver also writes:

However, there are two exceptions. One is the Quinnipiac poll, which asks:

Do you support or oppose giving people the option of being covered by a government health insurance plan that would compete with private plans?

This is a perfect question. It makes clear that the public option is an insurance program, rather than a program to provide health care services. It uses the less ambiguous phrase "government" rather than the more ambiguous phrase "public". It makes clear that the public option is a choice. It avoids leading the respondent by comparing the public option to Medicare. And it asks in unambiguous terms whether the respondent supports or opposes the proposal.

62 percent of people support the public option in Quinnipiac's August 5th poll, versus 32 percent opposed.

When a man embarks upon a crime, he is morally guilty of any other crime which may spring from it. Sherlock Holmes.

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by: Carnacki @ Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 17:07:55 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

You and One Citizen. (0.00 / 0)

I never said "there's no support for the public option among the public". I've said that the Survey USA poll is obviously wrong and shouldn't be used.

And I like how you automatically assumed that he'd taken it down instead of me boogering the link.

The Quinnipiac poll is from Aug 5th which is a lifetime in terms of this debate.

And notice that it asks the exact same question that One Citizen just posted about the NBC/Wall Street Journal's poll.  

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by: Bobzim @ Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 17:56:19 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Bob (0.00 / 0)

I never said he took it down. You must be confusing my comment with CA Berkeley's. For all I know Nate could have a system that changes the links when they're archived. I pointed out what the link you posted showed.

Just because you say the Survey USA poll is "obviously wrong" doesn't mean others agree with you on your intepretation and even the post you link to is much more nuanced about the flaws in it.

You have frequently said we've lost the debate on the public option and ignore other polls besides the Survey USA poll that show otherwise.


When a man embarks upon a crime, he is morally guilty of any other crime which may spring from it. Sherlock Holmes.

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by: Carnacki @ Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 18:31:30 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Yeah, that's like the 2nd or 3rd time I've attributed something to the wrong person. (4.00 / 2)

I apologize and I'll try to do better, Clem. :)

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by: Bobzim @ Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 21:06:53 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Bob (0.00 / 0)

Don't get mad at me. Take it up with Public Option. It's her email.


When a man embarks upon a crime, he is morally guilty of any other crime which may spring from it. Sherlock Holmes.

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by: Carnacki @ Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 02:54:25 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

But it was you who asked me to spread that stupidity around. (0.00 / 0)

n/t.

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by: Bobzim @ Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 09:03:55 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Bob (0.00 / 0)

No, Public Option did. The same Public Option that you said is dead, and Obama said is alive, and is also in four of the five hcr bills.

Obviously other people don't hold the same opinion as you. Clearly that angers you greatly.

When a man embarks upon a crime, he is morally guilty of any other crime which may spring from it. Sherlock Holmes.

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by: Carnacki @ Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 13:55:54 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Hey Bobzim (4.00 / 1)

What are your feelings about this poll?

Apparently only 25% of whites and less than 5% of non-whites trust Republicans anyway. So perhaps you should rethink your position as to why they deserve any input at all on this issue. Besides, their credibility rating numbers are only where the folks don't value edjacachun so much anyway, so the dwindling few left who still trust the G.O.P. don't know the difference between facts and faith to begin with.

Bobzim, Tom Davis (R-VA) is a retired congressman, so he can afford to tell the truth about his party. It wasn't all that long ago that he observed:

"We've become a rural party and a Southern party. We've been losing inner suburbs. A lot of this was the Bush policies. Obama carried -78 of the 100 counties with the highest education. McCain carried 88 of the 100 counties with the lowest education. As we move to cultural politics, that's been the shift."

But I reckon there will always be a few simpletons who'll buy into the GOP's old "Southern Strategy" of race baiting and fear mongering.  Meanwhile insurance companies can double down and start throwing $3 million a day into fomenting fear, but it won't do them any good. At the end of the day, most Americans want lawmakers who will advance the best interests of the country instead of wasting time on the Obama birth certificate shinola while blocking health care reform legislation

HINT: Apparently the author of the above poster is imploring Senate & Congress to read the health reform bill before they vote on it.

More iconic testimony to the efficacy of homeschooling throughout the south below

yeesh

.

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by: One Citizen @ Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 01:00:16 AM UTC

Posting all of the GOP approval polls and pics of conservative idiocy in the world (0.00 / 0)

will not change the fact that I've never said that we need or should seek GOP co-operation or approval. All I'm saying is that we need The Public's Approval to do this right and that if we get caught hyping obviously false statistics, conservatives are going to make hay out of it and we'll lose ground we can't afford to give up.

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by: Bobzim @ Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 09:10:13 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Good point. I think we'll see some real bounce on all the opinion polls (0.00 / 0)

now that both Mr. and Mrs. Obama are doing townhall meetings, though.

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by: One Citizen @ Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 11:01:06 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Recommending this Article (4.00 / 2)

There is a really interesting article in this week's Christian Century about health insurance coverage in the Mennonite Church.  It is a really compelling read and impressive in the manner that the church is trying to figure out their dilemma.  A lot of what they are trying to do seems to parallel the national debate, but with a more civil, compassionate and others-oriented (i.e. Christian) approach.  Regardless of your opinions of the government's efforts, I suspect that you will find a lot of valuable insight in this article.

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by: ceraines @ Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 04:13:48 AM UTC

thank you for sharing that n/t (4.00 / 1)

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by: Clem Guttata @ Thu Sep 24, 2009 at 10:21:51 AM UTC

[ Parent ]