Thanksgiving Eve Open Thread

Register-Herald letter whackjobs (1.00 / 1)

Is Beckley really that backward? I've been none too thrilled with recent statements by letter writers in the Beckley Register-Herald. Two examples:

First example

Let's stop this insanity of multiculturalism tolerance and diversity which has gone way too far. It has been said that diversity is the last pangs of a dying civilization. It's OK to have tolerance for others' customs and religion as long as it isn't infiltrating and weakening your own. This country was founded and is based on Judeo-Christian, western principles and ideas, it cannot stand to be diluted with other alien systems and still survive.

::snip::

Traditional Americans had better wake up; we are under attack on all fronts, from without and within. We have the means to defeat this enemy now, but do we have the will? Are we politically-correct crazy? If the event which happened at Fort Hood doesn't do it, then God help us.

Second example

I would exhort you. sir, as a professing Christian, to listen to your constituents who are opposed to this bill for many reasons, to seek the Lord's direction rather than the party's favor, and to take a stand against, not only this bill, but the cap and trade bill, as well.

::snip::

Conservatives in both parties treasure the sanctity of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, and wish to guard them. These "self-evident truths" can only exist when government does not control every aspect of our lives, whether by passing restrictive, oppressive laws, raising or imposing new taxes, or by ignoring the convictions of its citizenry, especially if these convictions are based on the Bible and the only Constitution in the world that was written based on God's leading.

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by: WV26003 @ Wed Nov 25, 2009 at 15:37:53 PM UTC

Whackjobs? (1.00 / 1)

If you disagree with the opinions or the facts, counter them or analyze them, don't just attack those who hold them. Dismissing others by labeling them doesn't further anything but hate.  

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by: JAWVMM @ Wed Nov 25, 2009 at 16:58:40 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

They are neither facts nor opinions (0.00 / 0)

Anyone who claims that the Constitution of the United States was of "God's design" doesn't deserved to be countered or debated. There's nothing about whackjobbery worth debating.

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by: WV26003 @ Thu Nov 26, 2009 at 15:17:45 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

"God's design" is not the same as "God's leading" (1.00 / 1)

And to say that the Constitution was written with God's leading certainly is debatable - one can make a perfectly good case that most of the Framers a) believed in God and b) followed what they believed was that God's teachings in designing the government.

In any case, it's a straw man - I didn't say they should be countered or debated - I said they shouldn't be dismissed by name-calling. The level of name-calling and refusal to even try to understand where the other side is coming from in the media and other forums is extremely high, and I'd rather we not stoop to it here.  

It is damaging to ourselves and others to dismiss people with labels, however much we deplore what we think they are, no matter what the label is - wingnut, whackjob, dumb Polack, pansy, coal thug, redneck, hillbilly, greeniac, all of them put real live individual human beings into a box, label it, and dismiss them as less worthy of respect than whoever is labeling. And the minute you do that, it becomes more acceptable to deny them rights, lock them up, beat them up, exploit them, whatever.

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by: JAWVMM @ Fri Nov 27, 2009 at 05:15:20 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Tell you what (0.00 / 0)

When those same people stop using letters to the editor to condemn and demonize gay Americans, then I will return the favor. Fair enough?

Until then, I shall call them out for being whackjobs.

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by: WV26003 @ Sat Nov 28, 2009 at 17:36:24 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

No, not fair enough (0.00 / 0)

The excerpts given neither called names nor expressed hatred toward individuals (rather than disagreement with ideas or actions), and say nothing about gays. Neither do the letters in their entirety. And both of the letters were, actually, making rational arguments in their own frame of reference.  

For that, an entire town was called backwards, and individuals called whackjobs - one of whom is concerned that Muslims in the American military are more loyal to their religion than to this country, and the other of whom was appealing to her Senator on principles she believes they have in common to vote against two bills.

Name-calling is not the same as calling-out.  Calling out is challenging truthfulness or sincerity, not simply calling a person crazy or an idiot, both of which are disrespectful to the mentally ill and mentally retarded, and akin to calling people limp-wristed or any other perceived attribute of a group perceived as inferior.

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by: JAWVMM @ Sun Nov 29, 2009 at 15:57:13 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

JAVVM = naive? (0.00 / 0)

JAVVM, perhaps you're too naive to know how these people talk and what they mean when they say these things.

Perhaps if you had been raised in that Fundie "culture", you would understand better.

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by: WV26003 @ Mon Nov 30, 2009 at 04:24:07 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

There's Hope (0.00 / 0)

Thanks, Clem, for pointing that out. I have quit reading comments most places because there is so much hate and unreason.

There is research that shows people don't learn as much from negativity. The miner you quote says as much - a lot of the fear and opposition comes from not knowing what will happen. Often we focus on the bad things that happen, and not so much on the good things about the alternatives (or the alternatives at all.) A couple of the posters address those concerns.

Maybe I should change my name to Pollyanna, but I think that if we focus more on positive alternatives, there is hope.

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by: JAWVMM @ Wed Nov 25, 2009 at 16:19:37 PM UTC

Hunker down and be thankful. (4.00 / 2)

All together now chant allelujah, praise Blankenship.

How's that, for being positive, Pollyanna?

Anyone with a mining job who takes the time to write a blog comments sections that they now feel "lucky" to have that job is either likely a kid, or else they're kidding. Miners have always faced layoffs. This recent glut in coal has caused to prices to drop, so coal operators naturally shut down operations and laid miners off. It ain't the fault of "cap and trade" regs or MTR permit holdups. At least not directly.

The primary reasons for the glut is because the industry has developed methods making possible record breaking tons-per-man-hour to be extracted. Also, the Bush administration has allowed those methods to be used practically without any environmental regulation constraints whatsoever.  While the price per ton soared, operators were producing faster than ever before, and power companies stockpiled it as fast as possible even as they referenced the then-current price of coal to justify bloated rate hike applications.

The suddenly, as the new Democratic administration came to power, artificially pumped up coal prices fell because of the glut. Everyone had more coal than they could store. So when prices fell, miners got laid off, same as it ever was.

Let's all just be thankful that there's plenty of coal and not worry about laid off miners, right? Did I mention that West Virginia gets more of its electricity from coal than any other state? Which works out great, because according to the WV Department of Commerce, "West Virginia is one of the nation's highest producers of coal helping provide the major source of energy for 32 states".

I recall when the coal industry stockpiled coal and then laid miners off in almost exactly the same manner back when they were fighting the passage of sulfur dioxide cap and trade laws to control the acid rain problem. Don't forget that Don Blankenship also shut down producing mines just to dodge paying out hard earned benefits at the Cannelton and Starfire mines. So don't even try to imply that miners are being laid off on the new cap and trade bill because nothing has even been passed.

Oops, I've digressed and become negative. Sorry.  I'm struggling to stop being all uptight, and do as Pollyanna has recommended. So here are my positive thoughts about all the bounty that the coal industry bestows upon us.

As a group, we West Virginians should be grateful that we pay lower income taxes than anyone else in the U.S. Thanks to coal, WV enjoys the lowest median household income of any state.

We are so blessed to have so much coal that we can keep our homes cozy. Otherwise West Virginia leaders would have to figure out how not to offer the least low-income weatherization assistance of any state.

West Virginians have been so grateful for being blessed with coal for so long now that we've become #1 at hunkering down. That's why our state leads all the rest in citizens with disabilities, while at the same time offering the least in social assistance.

Thanks to our coal-fired political system, we don't even seem to notice that we're dead last in educational services.  Because here in coal country, we're naturally educated far better from the "school of hard knocks" that we've no need for book learnin'. Why would anyone need to read when King Coal will supply all that valuable hard-knock learnin' for free? And why not have the lowest number of college graduates of any state when you can be thankful of the Mountaineers without bothering to attend WVU?

So although outsiders may think that folks from West Virginians are obese, toothless, fat and crazy, they'd be wrong. If we were crazy, then why would WV have the lowest expenditures of any state on mental health services?

With coal as plentiful as it is here just ripe for the pluckin', it's don't worry, be thankful. Just don't forget to stay hunkered down.

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by: One Citizen @ Wed Nov 25, 2009 at 20:05:52 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Well excuuuuse me (1.00 / 1)

If you have paid any attention at all to what I have said here before, you should have known I didn't mean be positive about coal, for heaven's sake. I meant we should be find some positive things to say about the alternatives. Most people prefer the devil they know to the devil they don't, and unless we can demonstrate that the alternative is not a devil at all, most people are going to go right on preferring the status quo and worrying about what would happen without coal.

Continuing to rehearse all the problems doesn't solve a thing, and it doesn't convince miners and the coal communities, because we can't demonstrate how things would be better for them. What do we advocate to fix them, beyond stopping MTR, and how are we going to communicate that vision?

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by: JAWVMM @ Thu Nov 26, 2009 at 13:38:58 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

ClimateGate / SwiftHack points (4.00 / 1)

Key points of rebuttal about SwiftHack Scandal:

First of all, this story should never have been called ClimateGate. Given the similarities between this smear job and the Swift Boat attacks on Senator John Kerry, SwiftHack is a far more appropriate name.

I’ve attempted to cover the major points of interest in this story. Consider this post a perpetual work in progress. It will be continually updated. Please leave appropriate links and angles I’m missing in the comments.

For your convenience, the following 6 points each links to the corresponding section of this post:

The scientific consensus on climate change remains strong.
The impacts of catastrophic climate change continue to rear their ugly head.
Hacking into private computer files is illegal.
All of the emails were taken out of context.
The story is being pushed by far-right conspiracy theorists.
Scientists are human beings and they talk frankly amongst themselves.

 

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by: Clem Guttata @ Thu Nov 26, 2009 at 15:30:42 PM UTC