Does President Obama agree with candidate Obama?

Haven't we seen enough? (0.00 / 0)

Candidate Obama starts this clip specifically with a contrast to the Clinton health reform process, which presented a full-blown plan with little public discussion. I think the process this time has been as far from that as you could get without having - what - precinct level discussion groups with newsprint records summarized and sent on to district, county, and statewide meetings?

I have watched more than I wanted to see on C-SPAN already. It is not necessary or sufficient to watch the discussions to understand who is making what trade-offs for what other interests, and the 'debates' televised so far certainly do not add much if anything to anyone's understanding of the facts or issues (not even the participants).

This is more than a bit disingenuous:

"President Obama, Senate and House leaders, many of your rank-and-file members, and the nation's editorial pages have all talked about the value of transparent discussions on reforming the nation's health care system," C-SPAN CEO Brian Lamb wrote. "Now that the process moves to the critical stage of reconciliation between the Chambers, we respectfully request that you allow the public full access, through television, to legislation that will affect the lives of every single American."

Do we really think that a media CEO actually believes that televising the negotiations will make them "transparent"?

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by: JAWVMM @ Wed Jan 06, 2010 at 00:31:06 AM UTC

So don't watch it. (4.00 / 1)

Regardless of what a CEO's reasons may be, the people should have the option of whether or not to watch. And yes I realize that putting it on the teevee machine in no way creates government transparency. In fact, anything other than some super secret Intelligence Committee meeting (and I'm not too sure about that) should be available to the public.

Going one step further, it wouldn't be a bad idea to televise the state legislative sessions, as well as county commission and city council meetings.  

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by: wv voice of reason @ Wed Jan 06, 2010 at 01:32:10 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Yes and no (4.00 / 1)

I think televising them makes them less effective as deliberative sessions. Legislators start playing to the audience rather than talking to each other. And the real discussions get moved to lunch, a back room, wherever. Then twice as much time is spent, which means half as much legislation is done (maybe that's a good thing) or half as much time is spent on discussing or studying it (which is probably not.)

It would be more useful to have agendas, proposed legislation, and minutes posted in time to provide information and other input to legislators, local government bodies of all sorts before the meetings.

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by: JAWVMM @ Wed Jan 06, 2010 at 02:04:37 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Pelosi on the matter (4.00 / 2)

I generally give Pelosi high marks for getting things done in the House, but this was not her best moment:

There's interesting commentary on the wisdom of such campaign promises over at Matt Yglesias' place.

I kind of like this comment.

Funny, this is the opposite of America's homeland security strategy, which suggests those that aren't happily sharing their private communications have something to hide.

Suggesting camera's are the cause of America's hyper-competitive political descent is as laughable as Steve Martin in The Jerk blaming oil cans for a gun assault.

Transparency is overrated? We haven't tried it yet.

And, for me this is the bottom line:

the fact that a more open legislative process leads to better results.

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by: Clem Guttata @ Wed Jan 06, 2010 at 15:07:30 PM UTC

There is no real debate on the floor of the Senate (4.00 / 3)

Senators time their speeches for the time zone at home. They can speak on whatever they want, and often push each other to yield the floor so they can rush off to some "event". It works on personal relationships. The open part is identifying the white hat guys that can be there to push the progressive point of view early enough in the process. HCR gave us some ideas on what was required.

And the more the regular public saw of the process the less they liked it. Tell them what ended up in the bill, then it does better. Having committee staff reserve seat for lobbyist sucks. So all the cameras in the world are not going to be the right pressure point.

Rules Committee in the House is rarely on CSPAN. I wish Mr. Lamb would push for that more because that is about as close to the inside of the Speaker's office that cameras can get. It was open during the House HCR amendment debate.

Some Conference committees have been televised. I only remember one recently, when Graham/Lieberman was dropped from the supplemental last year, and POTUS called Sen. Akaka during negotiations. So even then some of what went on was off camera, just like the last deal Jay got during the recess in the Senate Finance markup. Senate Finance was holding hearings all of 2008 on health care. Russel Moniker got himself arrested in May 2009.

NFTT: Support My Team or I Will Dance

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by: CA Berkeley WV @ Wed Jan 06, 2010 at 19:09:08 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Russell Mokhiber (4.00 / 1)

of Morgan County was the first to get arrested in that hearing...and I was very proud of him

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by: JBdem4usa @ Thu Jan 07, 2010 at 13:34:04 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Standing (up) for principles is to be admired (0.00 / 0)

My point was that it was over one year into the process. This is the big lesson that I think we have to learn from the health care debate. FDL's execution may not have always been what everyone in the progressive community wanted to see and read about, but the identification of the pressure points earlier into the process is hopefully a lesson learned not to be overshadowed by tactics.

Baucus runs marathons. He was way ahead of Russell and the nurses.  

NFTT: Support My Team or I Will Dance

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by: CA Berkeley WV @ Mon Jan 11, 2010 at 16:29:06 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

stunned (0.00 / 1)

i am absolutely stunned that a politician would say one thing to get eleced and the say or do another!

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by: stevewvu @ Thu Jan 07, 2010 at 19:40:29 PM UTC