Gee, who couldn't see this coming?

please (0.00 / 0)

keep pushing this...november looms ever closer...tick,tick,tick

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by: stevewvu @ Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 18:12:09 PM UTC

The GOP will never fund anyone to run against Rockefeller, anyway. (0.00 / 0)

So what difference does it make what truths I post about him, other than to perhaps get his Holiness' attention?

Here's an idea stevewvu. Go genuflect with the rest of the weasels where you belong, because they seem to be quite happy with his pontificating.

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by: One Citizen @ Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 21:17:32 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

keep pushing (0.00 / 0)

health care and the gop wont need to spend any money...rockefeller may not be at risk but hes only one man...november looms

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by: stevewvu @ Thu Feb 25, 2010 at 14:40:14 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

The Democrats won the last two elections because they promised a CHANGE. (0.00 / 0)

Republicans are doing everything they can to "Waterloo" health care.

Since the Republican recession began, the number of Americans who have lost their coverage has grown to estimated 52 million. The recent turmoil in the job market has increased the number of uninsured at the rate of up to 14,000 a day.

According to Urban Institute researchers, a one percentage point rise in the national unemployment rate causes 2.4 million people to lose employer-sponsored health coverage, . Of these people, 1 million rely on Medicaid or the Children's Health Insurance Program and 1.1 million end up uninsured.

Back in '08 Lee Iococca summed up the problem when he called for government action to address the massive health care costs facing the Detroit's automakers and other U.S. businesses, writing,

"Name me an industry leader who is thinking creatively about how we can restore our competitive edge in manufacturing,"
"...Who would have believed that there could ever be a time when 'the Big Three' referred to Japanese car companies? source

Coincidentally, Jay Rockefeller's trade mission returned from Japan just before our steel industry in WV went belly up due to illegal Japanese steel imports.

It upset him so much that in 2001 Rockefeller wrote a fierce letter to his war hero GeeDubya Bush about it.

In case you weren't aware, stevewvu, once upon a time our steel industry here consumed a LOT of WV coal making car parts for Detroit's auto industry. Needless to say, his long-winded CYA letter did little to protect jobs here.

But on a brighter note, just a year later he hosted a trade delegation from Japan, escorting them to a number of industrial sites in West Virginia.

Events scheduled for the five-day trade mission include private visits to existing aerospace companies in West Virginia, including the Sino-Swearingen and Tiger Aircraft companies in Berkeley county. The delegation will also be in Harrison county, paying visits to Lockheed Martin in Clarksburg, Pratt & Whitney, Bombardier and Aurora Flight Sciences in Bridgeport. The trade delegation will be shown several other industrial sites in West Virginia, and will also attend events hosted by Shepherd College and West Virginia University. source

One month later he was the only Democratic member of Congress from West Virginia to vote in favor of letting Bush invade Iraq without any budget oversight.

So could someone please tell me why Rockefeller is helping Republicans to "Waterloo" Obama when he was such good buddies with the Bush administration?

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by: One Citizen @ Thu Feb 25, 2010 at 19:21:06 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Idolatry and Senator Coal-A-Fluffer (0.00 / 0)

Thankyou, WVABLUE, for frontpaging my diary. I realize that my posing Senator Rockefeller as the Pope of Appalachia is controversial. It took guts to do it, and I appreciate it. After all, Rockefeller is a major leader of the Democratic party, so my critique must seem particularly harsh to other members of my party.

Regarding those Roman Catholics who are offended by my images, let me say this to you:

I am a Roman Catholic. Not only was I born, Baptized, and schooled in the Faith as a child, as an adult I was taught by Jesuits and for years taught Catechism straight out of the New Jerusalem Bible to teenagers right here in the Kanawha Valley.

Furthermore, my own priest is a close friend with whom I attended school for many years. He's sanctioned not only my images of Rockefeller as the Pope of Appalachia, but those I authored of Christ crucified on an Iraqi oil dredge to drive home the point that torture should never be sanctioned by the Church.

I will spare you the image, Sobby Wabi, so that you won't be offended. However you might want to check the definition of "idolatry" before you go casting stones at me for taking the name of Lord Rockefeller in vain.

The above image was posterized by Grandmothers For Peace International and placed on the wall of their field headquarters at Crawford, Texas.

Let's never forget how shocked and awed the rest of Congress was when the ranking member of the "opposition" party {Jay Rockefeller) voted to toss Benedick Cheney the keys to the most destructive weapons ever devised.

So, Wabi Sabi, I recently asked another commenter why she was so enamored of WV senator Jeff Kessler, and her answer was impressive enough that I am now actually considering filing a class action suit against him, along with his co-sponsors.

Since you appear to be one of Rockefeller's most dedicated fans, it'd seem unfair of me to not ask exactly what part of the photo below offends you?

Senator Coal-A-Fluffer Blesses Appalachia With His Holy Presence

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by: One Citizen @ Wed Feb 24, 2010 at 18:53:56 PM UTC

I just don't like it. (0.00 / 0)

Your photos are often clever. This one seems to be intended only for shock value because of the impact you think it will have, and I don't think it fits for what you're trying to convey. That's just my opinion.

I am a person of faith, (a baptized Catholic, a Sunday School teacher, and my wife is an Ordained United Methodist pastor), and as such I try to be respectful of all faiths (or lack thereof). Accordingly, I think some Catholics (not all, but some) will find your image offensive.  I feel the same way when people overuse comments about so and so acting like Hitler.  IMHO there are more appropriate ways to make a point.

It does seem that you were whining about it quite a bit, mostly it seems because it wasn't received as warmly as your others.

I support Rockefeller because he's much better than the alternative, and I think it's hard to blame him for the failure of health care reform, when every Republican voted in lockstep against the best interests of children, families and the nation as they have tried to kill meaningful reform (and everything else).  

Rockefeller has helped ensure that children across the country have good health insurance to the point that most people agree this is a shared community responsibility.  That's a major improvement from where we were in the early 90's and earlier when children's health depended entirely on who their parents were and how much money they had.  

Rockefeller has also been a champion for child abuse prevention including pushing for $1.5 billion in the health care reform bill for the most effective child prevention strategies that we have.  Since "my day job" is working to eliminate child abuse in WV, that's kind of a big deal.  If that skews my thinking a bit, then so be it.

I do not support Rockefeller when it comes to wiretaps, but I do think we don't know all of the story about what happened when he was Chair of Intelligence Committee.  He was legally prohibited from discussing things openly and I think it's a bit much to ask him to violate the law.  Could he have done more? Perhaps, but it's hard to know for sure.

Meanwhile, my question to you remains. Have you taken the time to call his office?  I haven't seen where you have, but I may have missed it. If so kudos for speaking up.  If not, then your photo creations may remain a topic of conversation, but your impact on better policies for our state will be limited.

(In case you're wondering, I have called the Senator's office and also sent a personal email expressing my frustration for his initial reluctance to pursue a public option through reconciliation.)

In a good conversation everyone speaks.  In a great conversation some even listen.

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by: Wabi-Sabi @ Thu Feb 25, 2010 at 02:37:23 AM UTC

Reconciliation has been used to pass health care bills in the past. (0.00 / 0)

You talk about his part in SCHIP, but did you know that SCHIP was originally passed through the reconciliation process? And although you may know about how COBRA helps folks who lose their jobs retain their benefits, did you realize that COBRA stands for the Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1985?

You may wish to call what I post whining, but others have described it as saying right out what they would like to.

By the way I haven't called Rockefeller's office yet because I wanted to see what he said when the media pressed him on it before I place a call. What he explained today was pure hogwash.

According to Martin Paone, a legislative expert who's helping Democrats map out strategy, a more robust public option--one that sets low prices, and provides cheap, subsidized insurance to low- and middle-class consumers--would have an easier time surviving the procedural demands of the so-called reconciliation process. source

I'm not shy about calling, I've done it many times. I have on file so many pages of bullshit talking points from him on a wide variety of subjects that I'm sick of it.

Regarding full his support of the wiretapping and tacit support of torture by the last administration, there are PLENTY of avenues he could have resorted to. There's a whole wing of the Justice Department with ultra high security clearance with FISA lawyers who could have advised him. Every one of the FISA judges have the same security clearance he has, yet there is no indication that he ever went to them over these injustices. In fact, I recall that after a couple of the FISA judges quit in disgust over the non-revelation of the NSA wiretapping program to the FISA Court, Rockefeller actually jacked up his defense of the companies who were involved!

But hey since you called his office about using the reconciliation process, tell me, exactly what did you get out of them? I'm willing to bet exactly NOTHING of substance. In the meantime rightwingers are starting to tag the use of reconciliation the "nuclear option".

The fact is that since 1985 reconciliation has been used 22 times, 16 of them by Republicans, so his excuses aren't just bogus, they're LAME. We ALL watched him slow-walk the public option while his conservative pals lied about "death panels" and scared the crap out of people with wingnut rhetoric for months on end just so he eventually could justify stripping it out of the bill. You may have the stomach for even more of his standard Villain Rotation tripe, but I don't.

If you think my imagery is wrongheaded, then think about the reconciliation process as merely using the established rules of the Senate. Then wrap your head around the times when Rockefeller publicly spoke out for the Public Option, stating

"I will not relent on that. That's the only way to go," ..."There's got to be a safe harbor."

That's pure pontification, pal.

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by: One Citizen @ Thu Feb 25, 2010 at 04:02:37 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

To be clear (4.00 / 1)

I support using reconciliation for a Public Option. I've said so often. I emailed his office and called his office saying so. (That's twice as much as you have on this.)

Meanwhile, go ahead and call me "pal" and "Sobby Wabi", but what the fuck did I ever do to you?

I didn't like your picture. Get over it.

In a good conversation everyone speaks.  In a great conversation some even listen.

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by: Wabi-Sabi @ Thu Feb 25, 2010 at 04:42:04 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

So what did his office say? (0.00 / 0)

I noticed that you chose not to share it. I don't have to guess why.

Wabi Sabi, many of my images are controversial, designed specifically to provoke thought, discussion, and/ or action. Some are "clever" as you put it, same are "cute", and some are admittedly repulsive and disturbing. You say "get over it", but that's because you don't understand. I'm not just used to criticism, I intentionally provoke it.

In other words, what I posted regarding Senator Coal-a-Fluffer wasn't meant to make you giggle or be "clever. Either because of or despite the images, I believe that you and I have had a pretty fruitful discussion.

For instance I discovered that you have an aversion towards being called "pal". I won't do it again. On the other hand, you finally figured out that Rockefeller had you completely snowed over the requirement to remain silent due to national security. But don't get mad at me for pointing it out.

I figure you're sensitive about it now because you likely believed exactly the same long-winded letter he sent me after I bitched at him about his wiretapping stance. By that time I didn't believe his pontificating any more than I could believe that in an earlier letter he'd actually used the Bush administration's exact "Global War On Terror" phrase (a.k.a. "GWOT") to explain why he had voted to go into Iraq in the first place. He not only even capitalized the letters as if it were a brand name, I got it on exactly the same day that Condi, GeeDubya and Cheney first rolled out their new spanking new phrase to the media!

Anyway, I'm hoping that now people can't think of him without imagining his coal-fired incense stencher stinking up the place. Whether or not you want to admit it, he deserves that coal-fired imagery even more than the pointy hat or the white beanie.

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by: One Citizen @ Thu Feb 25, 2010 at 12:39:18 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

No response yet. (4.00 / 1)

The Senator has not replied to my phone message or email, but he did issue the official statement, so we know where he stood coming into today's Summit.  

There's some thought that he will reconsider Reconciliation now, but needed to remain neutral to keep his place at the table for the Summit.

We'll see soon.

As for Rockefeller and national security, you didn't point that out to me. I knew it and talked about it when wiretapping was in the news.

I'm not a Rockefeller apologist, but it's not all or nothing for me. It's just that his positive traits for health care for children and child abuse prevention offset my differences with him on national security and coal.

In a good conversation everyone speaks.  In a great conversation some even listen.

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by: Wabi-Sabi @ Thu Feb 25, 2010 at 19:48:11 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

I recall you talking about wiretapping before. (0.00 / 0)

And I recall that you posed essentially the same excuse. The fact is that he was on the OVERSIGHT committee. It was essentially the same people whose oversight was regarded an abject failure by the 911 commission.

His dire lack of oversight carried right on throughout the Iraq war. You think he was responsible for passing some health care legislation, I think it's more likely that it passed despite him.

His advise to Hillary Clinton back when she tried to pass health care reform certainly didn't help her, but more likely built a wall of enmity that ultimately defeated her proposition.

The memorandum suggests that Hillary Clinton "use classic opposition research" to attack those who were excluded by the Clinton Administration from Task Force deliberations and to "expose lifestyles, tactics and motives of lobbyists" in order to deflect criticism.

Apparently Rockefeller has his fetish for snooping on Americans for quite some time...

"These documents paint a disturbing picture of how Hillary Clinton and the Clinton administration approached health care reform - secrecy, smears, and the misuse of government computers to track private and political information on citizens," said Judicial Watch President Tom Fitton.  "There are millions more documents that the Library has yet to release. source  

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by: One Citizen @ Thu Feb 25, 2010 at 23:39:53 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

This is really unproductive (0.00 / 0)

So Rockefeller recommended that Hilary play hardball when they were trying to pass reform.  So what?

Why not focus on the current opportunity we have in front of us to get meaningful reform passed now instead of examining what should have happened in 1993.

I'm not going to waste anymore energy on you. I'd prefer to focus on solutions.  

If you want send me something directly, then send me an email to the address listed on my profile.  Otherwise let's stop clogging up the comments with this stuff.

In a good conversation everyone speaks.  In a great conversation some even listen.

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by: Wabi-Sabi @ Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 02:13:18 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

One Citizen: Get your own blog. (0.00 / 0)

You're misguided. No one but you can tie a woman's uterus & health care to big coal and then be smug and arrogant about it. You have become a drinking game.  

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by: bluebird @ Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 02:12:01 AM UTC

Bluebird, I'm serious about wanting the Democratic wing to take back WV's Democratic party. (0.00 / 0)

Obviously that bothers you. So if you can't offer anything more constructive than your incessant flapping and cawing, I suggest you just go right ahead and chug the whole jar, because I'm not backing off.

In other words, I posted the above facts so that my fellow Democrats can know exactly who they've been voting for all these years. I actually do think that Wabi Sabi and I have had a very fruitful discussion. I know I can be a real pain in the neck, but sometimes getting people to just wake up and really listen can be rough.

You both should understand that I very actively supported Rockefeller back when he ran for Governor all 3 times. So I take it very personally every time he screws my family, my friends, and my neighbors. I knocked on a lot of doors and shook a lot of hands working long hours for him. Because of it, I also let him off the hook for far too long. But not any more.

Apparently you really don't care to know about him, or why West Virginia slid into the ditch so badly that all our kids are leaving. That's your prerogative. It's also your prerogative to disprove anything I've posted, but apparently you can't.

Speaking of blindly supporting a gubernatorial candidate, I'm not the one who tied the coal industry to a woman's uterus, that'd be your own doing. All I did was point out that your beloved Senator Panhandle apparently

1. refused to fund a bill requiring women to do an expensive and unnecessary medical procedure before exercising their legal right to choose; and,

2. sponsored a bill to divert funds directly to the WV Coal Association for the purpose of laundering your taxes to help him campaign across the southern coalfields.

Hey, you just coughed up your own uterus because I pointed out that Sen. Kessler is shamelessly pandering by pimping Coalocrat wedge issues. Or are you really upset at my suggestion that all anyone has to do to kill ANY bill in West Virginia nowadays is to tie the funding of that bill to the increase of coal severance fees?

You KNOW that's true, don't you? Perhaps what I said about increasing coal severance fees hits a little to close to home, eh, bluebird?

FUN FACT: West Virginia was the first state to ever have a state tax. For related information, see: Governor Marland's Political Suicide

also study the timeline of the funding of the landmark Recht Decision Mandate starting with this link.

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by: One Citizen @ Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 06:51:59 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

The Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party (0.00 / 0)

is working on taking back the WV Democratic Party, but it is one executive committee member, one county commission race, one delegate, etc. at a time.

It may be hard for some Democrats to accept, but the VISTA Jay Rockefeller is long gone (and he's not the only problem). When you have "Democratic" legislators actively discouraging renewable energy and promoting nuclear power plants in a state that still hasn't accepted the Clean Water Act or trying to regulate women's reproductive organs, then something is radically wrong. Sometimes "in your face" journalism is the only way to get people to see the obvious. Harsh maybe, but necessary. Thanks for doing what you do.

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by: wv voice of reason @ Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 13:06:51 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Poor One (4.00 / 1)

Well, I guess you told me. And yet, I still live!
Bless your heart!

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by: bluebird @ Fri Feb 26, 2010 at 13:00:42 PM UTC

Remind me to tell you about the Catholic Bishop who went into the coal camps (0.00 / 0)

just prior to the West Virginia mine war.

He came back and recommended to the WV legislature that miners simply hang a copy of the Beatitudes with the phrase "Blessed are the Poor" highlighted, along with attending church twice on Sunday (their only day off back then), so as to be more content with the miserable conditions that the operators were subjecting them to.

The conflagration that ensued was the bloodiest insurrection since the Civil War.

So your holier-than-thou attitude may endear you to some self-described "centrists" but all it does is makes me more determined.

After they lay down their arms, the ranks of the UMWA grew upwards of 150,000.

In other words, blackbird, you may be still alive but it's only because the drinking you've been doing hasn't been a game, pal. It's more likely a communion cup primarily financed by the coal operators. Their efforts to undermine the sociopolitical aspects of churches across the coalfields isn't just ancient history, pal.

I know that for a FACT.

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by: One Citizen @ Sun Mar 07, 2010 at 17:05:09 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Gee, indeed. (4.00 / 1)

   First of all, you don't know me at all.
Your comments are so hateful and erroneous they are almost pitiful. You could not be more wrong about who or what I am.
  I'm truly sorry that my comment suggesting you get your own webpage set off so much hatred for you. Obviously you have issues that are somewhat removed from the political discussion we are all entitled to have here.
  The posters on this site are all unique and have varied perspectives on what we want from our Democrat party. Each opinion is valuable, none above the others, not mine and not yours either.
  Your personal attack on me indicates you don't just want me to go away. You wish me ill and even death. Nothing I have ever posted warrants that. In your view, that must be acceptable. But I think most of us are just starting to find you scary and mean. My hope is that you can find some peace within yourself and maybe direct your anger more productively to entities who truly deserve it.
 But right now, you just look like a bully. I'm not afraid of you and I won't go away because you are such a nasty person. You see, the rest of us are determined to keep an open discussion. Some of us will use our free speech rights with a modicum of civility. You choose your own way.
  I don't like bullies.

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by: bluebird @ Mon Mar 08, 2010 at 01:35:27 AM UTC

"Erroneous"? How? (0.00 / 0)

You have had every chance to disprove what I've posted. Instead you choose to mock my truth-telling and even suggested that I take a hike.

Your "And Yet I Still Live" comment above was obviously intended to undercut the plight of those whose water is poisoned by Massey. So no one is fooled by your sudden "oh you big bad bully" tone. And for the record, not only have I never suggested that anyone censor you, I've never even flagged any of your comments. In fact, I can't remember ever flagging anyone's comments negatively.

My suggestion to you is that if you want respect, try offering your comments with respect. Your over the top accusation that I attached a woman's uterus to the coal industry telegraphed just about all anyone needs to know about you. It's pretty obvious that you're a political hack. If not, then, why have you never disproved anything I've posted, but instead sailed in here on me with nothing but cawing, flapping and wheedling?

That condescending "Bless your heart!" comment of yours above certainly wasn't lost on anyone. So now the only folks your sudden self-pitying "you big bad bully" tone may impress will be certain Democrats In Name Only who, like you, can't handle the truth when they see it. Since you haven't even bothered to post even one diary entry on this excellent website, most everyone realizes by now that you're really not much more than a common troll.

By the way, welcome to reality blogging. See? I'm not only  ENCOURAGING you to start posting something of substance in here, I CHALLENGE you to do so.

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by: One Citizen @ Wed Mar 10, 2010 at 16:05:24 PM UTC

[ Parent ]