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Democrats do best when they vote like Democrats

by: Clem Guttata

Fri Mar 19, 2010 at 16:10:47 PM EDT


By Clem Guttata

If either Rep. Rahall or Mollohan are still giving serious consideration to a no vote to the healthcare insurance reform bill, here's something that should give them pause.

The folks who might be happy with them voting "no" aren't the folks who are all that likely to vote for them anyway. Voting "no" is the wrong thing to do on the merits and it's the wrong thing to do on the politics, too.

I agree with Kos on this:

Alabama Democratic Rep. Artur Davis thinks he's earning brownie points back home by voting against the health care reform bill. You see, he's running for governor in a tough state, and so he needs Republican and conservative independents to win.

But he won't get them and will lose by 20 points, minimum.

There is no politician more stupid, than those who think that pretending to be Republicans will earn them points with conservative voters. Given the choice between a fake and the real thing, the real Republican will win every time.

This healthcare reform bill is the largest deficit reduction bill since 1993. This is a bill that has support from a broad range of groups from the Catholic Nuns to AFL-CIO to the AMA.

This is a bill that any lifelong Democrat can be very proud to vote for.
Clem Guttata :: Democrats do best when they vote like Democrats
Update: Since this may well be my last diary on the topic before a vote sometime tomorrow, I'll repeat a comment from a couple days ago, too:

I will be surprised for political reasons and disappointed for personal ones if Nick Rahall votes against. My read on WV-03 is the fundamental motivation for his opposition this cycle is the economy and fealty to coal interests--stuff like government health care is a distant secondary concern.

At a more personal level, my take on Rahall is he fundamentally believes in what the bill is about.

I will be really disappointed if he caves in to short-term political pressure and votes against the bill now. He's already voted in favor of a very similar bill. If he votes no this time around he's not going to please anyone--he'll piss off people who support HCR and he'll still leave those against HCR unhappy because he voted for it once already.

In all, I predict that both Rahall and Mollohan will vote for the bill.

It's a lot more fun to run a campaign talking about real accomplishments. It's a lot more fun to run a campaign talking about votes based on ideals rather than cynicism. Polls are already showing that as the bill gets closer to passing that more people like it. After it passes it will be even more popular. Neither one of them will want to be one the wrong side of history on this bill.

Remember, it's not too late to call now!
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Democrats do best when they vote like Democrats | 25 comments
Oh no they don't (1.00 / 2)
One thing about a liberal is, they have to hide who they really are, or they never win. Hard core lefty-socialists like Obama always run to the middle, to fool people.  
that's an interesting viewpoint (0.00 / 0)
But it really doesn't make any sense.

The main criticism I've heard of Obama since he got into office is that he's undelivered on all the liberal things he promised during the campaign. So, you would have a stronger argument we me if you said Obama ran to the left to get elected and then moved to the center after he got to the White House.

Callowayminer, if you don't mind me asking, where do you go your political news? Some people I know stick to Fox News and NRA newsletters. Others branch out to Limbaugh and Beck, too.

Some others find all that tiresome and just stick to the newspaper they can get in their front yard.

I'm wondering, what's your approach to keeping up with current events?

[ Parent ]
Coal dust (4.00 / 1)
Calloway must be one of these mountaintop removal "miners".

Calloway, just so you know, you're not a real miner unless you work underground. Otherwise, you're just a stripper.

Main Entry: 4mine
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): mined; min·ing
Date: 14th century
transitive verb
1 a : to dig under to gain access or cause the collapse of (an enemy position) b : undermine
2 a : to get (as ore) from the earth b : to extract from a source (information mined from the files)
3 : to burrow beneath the surface of (larva that mines leaves)
4 : to place military mines in, on, or under (mine a harbor)
5 a : to dig into for ore or metal b : to process for obtaining a natural constituent (mine the air for nitrogen) c : to seek valuable material in

[ Parent ]
Careful there Coal Dust... (0.00 / 0)
Strippers pay taxes; without them, where does your check come from?  
[ Parent ]
What are you implying? (0.00 / 0)
That the coal industry taxes made to the state government go directly to support that particular person? How could that work?

That could be interpreted as sort of a "you must be on welfare and you don't count" dismissive way to talking down to someone. Please, straighten me out if I am wrong.

NFTT: Support My Team or I Will Dance

[ Parent ]
Several places... (0.00 / 0)
Newspapers, radio, TV, print, etc...but if your point is don't listen to Fox or the radio, I do, and for balance I keep up with PBS, NBC, CBS, ABC, MSNBC, CNBC, NPR; I think that should balance out the liberal side with one conservative station, don't you?  
Are you from WV? (4.00 / 1)
Other than the Charleston Gazette, could you name for me a liberal newspaper in West Virginia?

Other than AM1600 in Wheeling, could you name for me a local liberal radio station in West Virginia?

[ Parent ]
you're confusing me again (4.00 / 1)
I don't see a single liberal news source on that list.

Corporate owned media has a decided conservative slant--it favors the status quo. All the news outlets you listed are high on stenography and false equivalence (some-say / others-say) news stories. That's how we end up with people that spend a lot of time watching news yet are so poorly informed.

Even NPR, which at one point could be counted on for something close to high quality reporting now gives free reign to reporters who parrot context-free right-wing talking points.

And, to answer your question, no. I don't think there's such a thing as balancing the propaganda arm of the Republican party, Fox news. It's like saying you're going to balance your diet by eating two fried twinkies every day to balance out a fresh garden salad.

The best thing you can do for yourself is not watch it at all. Studies show that people who watch Fox news regularly are less well informed about current events than those who don't. You are filling your mind with garbage.

[ Parent ]
No, thankfully I cannot... (1.00 / 1)
WV is a RED state; we voted for Reagan once, W. Bush twice, we voted for McCain, some voted for Hillary; all sought to avoid Obama, by any means possible, the folks in this state are smart; but he was forced upon us by the likes of Nick, Jay, etc..as for media, it would seem liberal outlets are drying up daily. Where is Air America? No more $$ from George Soros to subsidize them? What about NPR? Could it survive w/o taxpayer money? Doubtful. Didn't those kind, loving, compassionate liberals at the Gazette just get involved with firing or laying off a bunch of folks? What was that about? Why couldn't they just pay people to show up? Profit over people? Why do you lay folks off if you are prospering? I saw the other day where CNN is in a pitched battle with Sponge Bob for something like 15th place in the cable ratings; Cartoon Network is ahead of MSNBC and CNN; who is #1? Don't have to tell you, you already know.
As for "health care" over 70% of Americans are happy with their coverage; Medicare denies more claims than Aetna; there is not one single poll in the USA or WV that reflects Obama's contention; I went to Rahall's town hall meetings and watched as hundreds lined up to beg him not to destroy the health care system with Obamacare; many self-identified veterans talking to a man whose mind was already made up and wasting everyone's time. For every one person that stood up to speak for Obamacare, there were 25 against. If Nick votes for this, he is in for quite a rude shock in Nov.  
Healthcare satisfaction (4.00 / 1)
Callowayminer -- Please start providing links for your numbers.

I don't believe it when you say that 70% of Americans are happy with their coverage. Does that number include Americans who have no coverage at all? Show me the survey.

Here's the most recent survey I could find on the healthcare reform bill.


Kaiser poll shows uptick in support for health reform
By Walter Alarkon - 03/19/10 11:57 AM ET

The latest poll by the non-partisan Kaiser Family Foundation found 46 percent of Americans support the healthcare bill and 42 percent oppose it.

I readily acknowledge that poll is on the high end for public support for this bill, but, only by a few points. Health care reform is not unpopular. Fox news and the Republican party have vastly overstated the level of public disapproval for HCR. I got an email from RNC chair M. Steele a couple days ago saying "the American people are against by a 3:1 margin"... that's a total bullsh*t number on his part. He's flat out lying to try and scare people. It's a cynical and misleading way to raise money.

I have to laugh whenever I hear someone say WV is a red state. Go ask the WV GOP how it is doing on winning statewide races. Ask them how their candidate recruitment went this year for state house and senate races. Tell me which party has the majority in the legislature. When the GOP starts regularly competing on those grounds you can call it a purple state... until then we're still blue.

Your statement that here in West Virginia "all sought to avoid Obama" is a patently false statement and a real insult to the many of us here who worked on Obama's West Virginia campaign even before Nick, Jay, etc., started supporting him. Obama supporters in West Virginia were and are capable of making their own voting decisions. I'm proud that Nick and Jay came out early and strong for Obama, but it's insulting to suggest that progressive party activists were somehow followers in the Presidential campaign.

[ Parent ]
I will gladly concede that point, on second thought... (0.00 / 0)
After hearing WV's unemployment now stands just under 12%? Keep voting democrat for continued progress? Perfect example: $5 million of the sham "stimulus" bill used by WV state govt. to scan paper. Shovel ready jobs? Shovel the old papers into the trash can? I saw an article in the news that VA was ranked #1 in business climate, WV 49th; we share a common border, yet there are 48 states between the two. So yes, you are correct, it is blue, please, it is blue.  
[ Parent ]
Why is my Shelley so quick to claim credit for the stimulus helping her constituents? (0.00 / 0)
She is happy to mug for the camera.

NFTT: Support My Team or I Will Dance
[ Parent ]
Yeah... SO smart (0.00 / 0)
West Virginians are so smart that they have the lowest percentage of college graduate residents in the entire nation. SOOO smart.

Calloway, thanks for helping to make West Virginia the "last place" anyone wants to live.

[ Parent ]
Hello Coal Dust... (0.00 / 0)
I have WV underground and surface cards; KY underground and surface cards; had KY MET, WV EMT-B; have KY surface foreman; MSHA dust and noise. What about you?
As for surface mining, it has given S. WV a priceless commodity-flat, usable land. By last count I remember an industrial park along 119 at Holden, a regional jail at Holden, a really nice golf course near Gilbert; flat land for a new school near Red Jacket in Mingo; four really good examples of great things that can be done with a mountain.  
less than 2% of flat land developed (0.00 / 0)
In other parts of the state world, flat land is created as part of a specific economic development. It's factored into that development and, because it is a limited amount of land, the environmental damage can be contained through well known procedures.

The last time someone added it all up, less than 2% of the land flattened by mountain top removal had been developed. The flat land argument is probably the weakest of them all in favor of mountain top removal.

[ Parent ]
Drove through Randolph County this week (0.00 / 0)
The amount of mountain that disappeared between last year and this year was sickening.
[ Parent ]
Censorship? (0.00 / 0)
What kind of government or person is it that advises citizens to not watch a particular network? Wow. Where are the conservatives trying to shut down media outlets? I would never tell anyone to not watch CNN or MSNBC. Watch them all; I believe people can make up their own mind; they don't need a government agency telling them what or how to think. Are you into censorship too? What scares you so badly about a network that you say not even watch it? What wonderful motives you must have, willing to save your fellow citizens from such intellectual poison. OH! Air America not liberal? LOL, hoot and holler! What studies? Typical liberal, long on name calling and derision, but very short on facts and evidence.

Clem, the ones I am referring to as campaigning as moderates or conservatives are the so-called blue dogs, which turn out to be lap dogs, recruited for the very purpose of fooling voters by our favorite naked chest-poking Chief of Staff Rahm Emmanuel. They knew there was no way the could have gotten elected in their districts without pretending to be someone they are not. I think John McCain learned that lesson too, seeing as how he never bothered to tell the country what a radical far left liberal Obama was, McCain did a terrible disservice to the country.  

I don't think that word means what you think it means (0.00 / 0)
Censorship is "the suppression of speech or deletion of communicative material which may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, or inconvenient to the government or media organizations as determined by a censor."

What I'm suggesting is that you be an informed consumer of news and, also, do something to improve your mental well being. Just turn off that TV. There's better ways to get informed.

Air America was a network designed to attract a liberal audience. That is true. But, that wasn't on your list. Also, it wasn't on mine.

You mentioned them when you were trying to make some other point that I really didn't understand (not trying to be rude, just being honest... I did not follow what you were saying about Air America).

Just for kicks... I'll bite on your comment about Blue Dogs. I don't like the Blue Dog caucus. But, they've hardly been lap dogs. The last I saw, their party line voting record is the worst of any caucus in Congress.

And, while I'm not big fan of Rahm, we shouldn't let facts get in the way of a good story. The only analysis I've seen of Rahm's recruitment says that Congress people he recruited are no more or less liberal than the rest of the Democratic caucus.

Finally, your last line is laughable on both counts. McCain went out of his way to say Obama was a "radical far left liberal." Wasn't that what that whole made-up Ayers thing as about?? The truth is, Obama has been nowhere nearly as liberal as McCain and the GOP claimed he was.

Last chance here, Callowayminer, to have any credibility. Name me three things that Obama has done in office that are more liberal than what he said he would do on the campaign trail. Heck, I bet you can't even name one!

[ Parent ]
You know by golly you are right (0.00 / 0)
My apologies, I was confused. What I was thinking about was the stuff about bringing home the troops from Afghanistan and Iraq and closing Club Gitmo, but, in my confusion I forgot that those are good things I can say about Obama. I was thinking more along the lines of the so called Blue Dogs. But sadly, I never remember McCain exposing Obama; upon reflection if one listened closely he did indeed promise to do what he is doing, with all the resultant and building carnage.
Hey just a question to all you guys batting around topics on here. Do you guys work? Do you have jobs? Just wondering.  
[ Parent ]
Sinking to calling us all Cheetos munching kids living in parent's basement? (4.00 / 1)
All your bases belong to us.

And not that it is really any of your business, but I have worked for the same socialist for almost thirty years.

NFTT: Support My Team or I Will Dance

[ Parent ]
No (0.00 / 0)
Just curious. One thing is for sure though, you guys have to be the nastiest, rudest group I have ever posted with.  
[ Parent ]
I apologize for failing to be civil. (0.00 / 0)
We try to exchange ideas here. I did that on several occasions. I was frustrated by your lack of response to the counter argument I tried to engage you in. I apologize for my frustration, but please look at the history our our exchanges before you cover me with a blanket of "you guys".

Ignoring someone is the highest insult we can use against each other in my marriage, so I tend to jump right in. Your responses got testier and more off topic, and use pretty "loaded" words. But there is that old country advice of catching more flies with honey than vinegar. We are a self-moderated community here.

Your very first comment also used the phrase "government takeover" which could be seen as a loaded description. At the beginning I pointed out why I had come to a different conclusion and invited you to provide your basis for the counter argument. This is a past Republican idea of private insurance.

In your very first comment you said used the phrases "Three Stooges-Barry, Harry and Nancy" and "Obamanation". I grew frustrated at your repeating something that I felt had no basis in fact. And did you read what the mission statement here is?

The comments are threaded here with replies indented. I admit is possible that you responded in a place I did not notice. You throw out "159 new agencies" and did not back it up when I asked about grants w/in existing structure vs new standalone agencies. I am frustrated with "no poll shows majority support" and then you seemingly ignoring an invitation to discuss polling examples and elections v sampling polls. Clem Gluttata also tried to engage, and provided you an opportunity that you did not use.

Your interpretation of teabagger as a insult based on sexuality is not the picture I had in mind. My momma would have to say you were thinking nasty there. People at those rallies with tea bags attached to their ball caps, and the stunt of trying to dump a million tea bags on the White House Lawn, that is what comes to my mind. And, sorry, those hats were really silly. The root of the first tea party was smugglers versus the East India Tea Company, and about profits of royal charter vs free market. It was not political. The Stamp Act had already been repealed by then.

I married into a very politically active family, lively dinner discussions, people who clerked for US Supreme Court Chief Justice Rehnquist, top aides to Congressional Chairmen, senior career foreign service officers, CIA employees, etc. I would think they know far left and socialism when they see it. None of us came to the conclusion POTUS was a "hard core lefty-socialists". You said of Obama "he was forced upon us by the likes of Nick, Jay, etc." which flies in the face of elections results. President is a national election, proscribed in the current manner. In 2008 the state did not vote for the winner. Oh, well. Our system is the best except all the rest.

NFTT: Support My Team or I Will Dance

[ Parent ]
Thanks just the same (0.00 / 0)
I have my Masters, what about you? I love WV, go ahead and insult home.  
a pointer (4.00 / 1)
If you hit the "Reply" button underneath a comment, instead of the "Post a Comment" button at the bottom of the page, your comment will appear directly in response to the comment you're responding to.
[ Parent ]
We all need the gray matter excercise (0.00 / 0)
but it took me a little while to figure out the disconnect to which you refer.

Then again I have Pete Session R-TX in Rules offering conflicting amendments and Diaz-Balart R-FL agrees with Polis D-CO.

NFTT: Support My Team or I Will Dance

[ Parent ]
Democrats do best when they vote like Democrats | 25 comments
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