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Putting this at top so even our rightwing readers will see it.
CNN vote of debate watchers: Biden 51, Palin 36
CBS poll of undecideds: Biden 46, Palin 21
From an email:
West Virginia Obama for America State Director Declares:
"Biden's Performance Tonight - A Clear Victory"
Charleston, W.Va.... Obama for America West Virginia State Director Tom Vogel issued the following statement at the conclusion of the vice presidential debate between candidates Senator Joe Biden and Governor Sarah Palin:
"Tonight leaves no doubt, that by choosing Joe Biden as his vice presidential running mate, Barack Obama understands what's at stake in these trying times and possesses the sound judgment needed to lead our country. Joe Biden is a true statesman with a deep understanding of economic and foreign policy issues, and knows how to change the direction of our nation.
"Raised in a working-class family with small town values that are akin to so many West Virginians, Senator Biden understands the mounting challenges facing working-class Americans today. Barack Obama and Joe Biden will work to rebuild our economy, develop a health care system that works for all Americans, and repair our nation's reputation around the globe.
"The momentum for the Obama-Biden ticket continues to grow in the Mountain State. Joe Biden's clear victory in tonight's debate provided West Virginians with one more reason to cast their vote for Obama-Biden on November 4."
Here's a photo from the debate watching party in Charleston at the Campaign for Change HQ.
I just got back from the VP debate watching party in Martinsburg.
I thought Sarah Palin memorized her lines well, but she came across as really mean. Now in the first debate I thought John McCain did too and it was roughly a draw, which, given the poll situation, equalled a win for Obama. But the polls showed regular people thought overwhelmingly Barack Obama won the debate.
The narrative that came from that first debate was that McCain was mean, temperamental, grouchy, and out of touch about the economic situation.
Obama won that debate with the viewers when it was on foreign policy, which McCain has claimed is his strong suit.
He looked even keeled, solid, presidential.
Tonight we saw the importance in the two candidates decisions to pick a vice presidential nominee.
Joe Biden was far from my first pick, but my minister thinks the world of him. Tonight's debate performance really won me over that Joe Biden was a solid pick as vice president, to fill in should, God forbid, the need occur.
Sarah Palin convinced me she can memorize her lines, but as she herself stated, she wasn't going to answer the questions when it didn't suit her. I think she had to do that because she could not think on her feet.
Her winking and overly folksy manner didn't seem presidential to me. She didn't give me confidence that she could do the job should, God forbid indeed, she had to fill the job of the 72-year-old John McCain, who refuses to release all of his medical records.
As the poll numbers show, Palin did better than people expected, but that was because the bar was set so low because of her rambling, often incoherent responses in interviews with Sean Hannity, Charles Gibson and Katie Couric.
Here's the difference between unscripted moments and scripted in a debate.
Someone in Martinsburg described her as an automaton. If the response wasn't pre-programmed into her, she didn't have an answer. It shows here.
You'll hear howls of approval from the blood thirsty Republican base that wants endless war and tax cuts for the rich with no regard to what happens to the rest of us and our nation's failing infrastructure.
But my guess is her responses is going to further drive the undecideds and independents away from McCain to Obama.
Update 1:
Read Al's diary for an excellent breakout of the focus group responses.
Biden's response about the Iraq war scored the highest of the night. That zinger! that Palin did about the "white flag" (the type of response Shelley Moore Capito's thrown out herself) really turned off the voters.
CAMPAIGN FOR CHANGE HOSTS STATEWIDE
VICE PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE WATCHING PARTIES
Charleston, W.Va.... The West Virginia Campaign for Change today announced that statewide office locations will host vice presidential debate watching parties on Thursday, October 2, 2008. Democratic vice presidential candidate Senator Joe Biden and Republican vice presidential candidate Governor Sarah Palin will meet for the first and only time at Washington University in St. Louis, Mo.
"Joe Biden is an experienced debater and legislator with a vast knowledge of economic and foreign policy issues. We are confident that he will shine during tonight's vice presidential debate," said Tom Vogel, West Virginia State Director, Obama for America.
A Quinnipiac University Swing State Poll released on October 1, 2008, found that Senator Barack Obama is leading Senator John McCain with over 50 percent of the vote in Florida, Ohio, and Pennsylvania. The poll also shows that the economic downturn is helping to put Democrats on top.
The following Campaign for Change locations will host debate watching parties:
Charleston - 247 Capitol Street, 5:00p.m. volunteer phone bank, debate watch party to follow.
Huntington - 1201 7th Avenue, 7:00 p.m.
Martinsburg - 124 South Queen Street, 5:00 p.m. volunteer phone bank, debate watch party to follow.
Morgantown - 3109 University Avenue, 7:00 p.m.
Please visit www.wv.barackobama.com for more information on other vice presidential debate watching parties across West Virginia.
Also from a Berkeley County email:
Can you see Russia from your house? Then you probably won't be able to see the Vice Presidential Debate either - so join us at Democratic HQ in Martinsburg tonight to watch the debate with your friendly fellow Democrats! You've seen Sarah Palin with Charlie Gibson, you've seen her with Katie Couric also, now you can see her with our next Vice President, Joe Biden. Will she provide an economic aid package to Waziristan, or will she invade it? She might have to get back to you on that one!
The debate starts at 9:00 p.m., but we'll be start phone banking for change at 5:00 p.m.on our NEW PHONE SYSTEM! That's right, we have four new phones and phone lines dedicated only to phone banking - no more cell phones! We've got the technology, we've got the phone lists (of Hillary Democrats and Independents -- a relatively friendly audience), we just need you!
At an appearance at Maumee Ohio last Wednesday, Senator Biden got off message when asked about his support for "clean coal".
I'm sure McCain will try to use this against Obama-Biden in WV, but it should be noted that Biden talks about investing in figuring out how to make coal "clean" so that the China coal plants are safer. The same investment will help WV coal miners. He's not saying no to coal - just no to new coal powered plants.
The Democratic ticket is hitting John McCain's inadvisable comments in the most recent issue of Contingencies where in an article he wrote in that magazine on page 30 he says:
Opening up the health insurance market to more vigorous nationwide competition, as we have done over the last decade in banking (italics mine), would provide more choices of innovative products less burdened by the worst excesses of state-based regulation.
(Bumped for the VP debate. - promoted by Clem Guttata)
At DNC08, I had the chance to talk with Rep. and Mrs. Rahall. They each told me about the role that two West Virginians, Nick Rahall and Sen. Robert Byrd, played in welcoming Joe Biden to the Senate back in the early 70's.
Imagine, at age 29, getting ready to start a new job and, within a few days after being "hired", yet weeks before starting, your family is struck by tragedy. You lose your wife and infant daughter in a car accident. You are left with two young sons, both injured, to raise as a single father. You wonder if you should even take the job.
That's the situation Joe Biden found himself in, back in 1972 after winning election to his first term as a Senator from Delaware. As we all know, Biden did serve that term, his first of many. Today, he is now the VP candidate for the Democratic party.
A lesser known part of the story is the role two West Virginians played in welcoming Biden to the Senate and helping him manage his daily Amtrak commute back to his kids in Delaware.
Back in 1972, Nick Rahall was a staff member in the office of Senate majority whip, W.Va. Sen. Robert Byrd. (A few years later, Rahall was elected to the first of many, many terms he has served in the House of Representatives.)
As Joe Biden mourned the passing of his wife and daughter, it was Byrd and Rahall who came from Washington to attend the funeral.
Once Sen. Biden took office, he was keenly interested in knowing the Senate vote schedule each day--in order to know what train he could catch home. Every day he called down to the Senate cloakroom. In those early years, it was Nick Rahall he asked for. To this day, when Sen. Joe Biden sees Nick Rahall, he fondly remembers his help in those early Senate days.
I've just noticed yesterday that John McCain is ahead of Barack Obama now in most nationwide tracking polls this week. I have to be honest with you, I am very disappointed and discouraged about what is happening right now in the presidential election.
This should be a Democratic blowout. The economy is in the tank and in my honest opinion in stagflation right now. Our worldwide reputation is completely shot. Our Republican president's approval ratings are in the 20 to 30 percent range. And the Iraq War is hurting us in every which way both domestically and internationally.
But as we all know by now the United States of America is a very socially conservative country. Once again it seems like that may be trumpeting all other issues yet again for the 3rd straight election. People now more than ever before perhaps even in our nation's history vote on "values" issues rather than on "bread and butter" issues or foreign policy concerns.
I've heard story after story on liberal blogs how the McCain campaign is running more and more ads than the Obama campaign even though the Obama campaign has probably much more money on hand than the McCain campaign has at its disposal.
We have to remember several things though however before we start crowning Obama as hopefully our next president.
1. John McCain has almost always been very popular, one of the most popular Republicans I might add, in this country rightfully or wrongfully. Many independent voters and even many lifelong Democrats have always liked John McCain "Maverick" or not. While McCain is indeed a "flip-flopper" most Americans at least for now still buy into the image rightfully or not. I think we Democrats have also grossly underestimated how popular his POW status is in America, and in West Virginia especially with our rich military tradition, as W. Virginia almost always has had the highest percentage of servicemen both active and inactive than in any other state of the country.
2. We Democrats grossly underestimated Sarah Palin big time. I have even done so. Even though she is involved in many scandals right now she still has been a huge hit among the Republican white evangelical and Pentecostal base, since she herself is Pentecostal. To my knowledge she is the first Pentecostal candidate ever chosen on a presidential ticket either as President itself or as Vice-President,and that helps her big time and plays very well among white evangelicals and white Pentecostals everywhere, but especially here in Pentecostal country the usually solidly Democratic West Virginia coalfields where I live. To me she is the female equivalent of Mike Huckabee except that she is much more fiscally conservative than Huckabee is. I'm afraid that W. Virginia has probably been locked up for good for McCain because of her, simply because of the heavy white evangelical and Pentecostal vote here in West Virginia especially the coalfields where I live even though my home area is overwhelmingly Democratic in voter registration. McDowell County where I live has one of the highest percentage of Pentecostals both white and black not only in W. Virginia but yes even the whole entire nation as a whole as well. White socially-conservative Pentecostals have really taken over McDowell County right now in most leadership positions. Sad but true. We Democrats also underestimated McCain's ability to take a calculated risk in order to win big time. So far sadly enough it does seem to have worked, at least for the time being. Hopefully it won't remain that way before November 6, 2008. Here even in strongly Democratic McDowell County Palin seems to be loved right now among the white Pentecostals and evangelicals here, and many personal friends of mine, some of whom have never even voted Republican even once in theie lives, white evangelicals and Pentecostals especially, say they are now very tempted to cross party lines for the very first time ever. Sad but true yet again.
3. We have grossly underestimated big time the anger of many of Hillary Clinton's rabid supporters. I bluemcdowell along with many if not most Democrats Obama supporters especially automatically assumed that they would return to the Democratic fold. So far that doesn't seem to have happened as of yet and it's only 50/50 at best if they ever will return to vote for Obama in this election. Even with the Clintons' convention speeches and outright endorsement of Obama many Clinton's supporters rightfully or wrongfully have still not yet returned to the Democrats for this election. To me this is a huge mistake to completely ignore the Clinton supporters. Hillary Clinton won 67 percent of the Democratic primary vote in W. Virginia and 65 percent of Democrats in our neighhbors to the West and very similar to West Virginia in almost every single way the Bluegrass State of Kentucky. And she did win almost half of the Democratic primary voters nationwide, 18 million of them. 18 million voters is a large number my friends. And still poll after poll have anywhere from 15 to 30 percent of Clinton supporters still backing McCain. And Sarah Palin so far has surprisingly won over many Clinton's supporters over to McCain and her side. Many women have rightfully seen through this charade but sadly many have not as well.
4. Last of all, we do have to remember that Barack Obama does have a funny-sounding name, is African-American, his small-town comments, which I agree with but most white evangelical and Pentecostal friends of mine don't, and Rev. Wright, whom has hurt us Democrats here in the WV coalfields big time even here in Democratic McDowell County more than even I thought he would. While most of us are well informed about this upcoming election and the issues at hand many of if not most voters here have not as of yet. Many still won't even consider voting for him just because of those reasons no matter if he's the better candidate on economic and foreign-policy issues. If Obama's name was "John Smith" instead he would win a lot more voters even many socially conservative white Pentecostals here in McDowell County and in the entire state as a whole.
McDowell County has elected many African-American candidates before, more than 99 percent of every single county not only in West Virginia but also in the United States of America as a whole believe it or not! But they were and still are all Christian and had Christian-sounding names, like Clif Moore, Booker Stephens, Sarah Hall, and Ergie Smith. Obama is exactly like them in every single area but his name. But try telling that to low information voters here even in very Democratic McDowell County. They'll often say "common sense tells me that the name Barack Hussein Obama is Muslim." Sad but true.
And don't forget the negative impact Obama's former pastor Jeremiah Wright had as well. Wright is still absolutely hated by white evangelicals and Pentecostals here even in solidly Democratic McDowell County. Sad but true.
I still think Obama can win in a landslide, but he and his running mate need to stop praising McCain and Palin and start attacking him and his running mate instead. The Obama campaign also needs to start the television advertising as soon as possible and run much more intelligent ads than they currently are right now. Right now McCain is out-advertising Obama even though Obama has much more cash on hand for some strange reason. Not only that, but McCain's ads silly or not have resonated more with independent voters, conservative Democrats, and some of the Hillary Clinton supporters than Obama's have. They also need to attack George W. Bush a lot more than what they are currently doing and link John McCain to Bush a lot more effectively than what they are doing right now and have done in the past.
It may not be panic time just yet, but it's coming pretty close to it. Right now I'm very discouraged at how this campaign has turned out.
The good news there's still time to fix it, and fix it we must, because our whole entire beautiful and wonderful country's very own existence is at stake, and I'm 100 percent convinced that a McCain/Palin ticket will completely destroy it and finish off the work George W. Bush started in January 2001.
Losing is not an option for us Democrats this year. We must win this election or our country as we now know it will be completely and utterly destroyed.
If you're so inclined, please digg my inaugural post at Huffington Post.
Sen. Biden's most significant legislative accomplishment was probably the passage in 1994 of the Violence Against Women Act (VAWA). Sen. Biden was the original sponsor and architect of this landmark legislation, which has saved countless lives since its adoption. read more | digg story
My first reaction is positive, particularly because he is the initial sponsor and author of the Violence Against Women Act (VAWA). His foreign policy credentials are strong, but his leadership in protecting women, children and families from violence are number one in my book.
The fact that Biden commutes to his home in Delaware every day is a good narrative versus McCain's many mansions too.
(Well said, bluemcdowell. Thanks for writing this. - promoted by Carnacki)
First I have a confession to make. I did not watch the AFL-CIO debate last night. I don't care too much for watching televised debates especially more than a year before the November general election.
I personally think it's way too early to even have debates like this in the first place. Americans including me are already sick of debates, and we haven't even had our first state primary election yet.
I'll save that for another day. Now for a more important if not more disturbing issue: Senator Joe Biden's dismissive attitude toward a Sago Miner's Widow.
Now there is a spirited debate here in coal country in W. Virginia, Kentucky, and Virginia on whether Joe Biden went too far or not. I personally think he did. But I also can understand why many think he didn't as well.
I personally don't know the name of the woman asking the question. But I do know why she would feel let down by the government. She received a huge ovation from the crowd there, and deservedly so.
Senator Biden did give his sympathies to the woman but nearly long enough in my honest opinion. All he said was that he supported "implementing all the commission's findings." I have to be brutally honest and admit I'm 100 percent stupid in not knowing what congressional body who is head of all these findings. I take 100 percent blame for that.
Sadly I am too apathetic most of the time like everybody else in the United States it seems. I take full 100 percent responsibility for it. I just wish my fellow Americans Democratic, Republican, and most definitely independents would join me in doing the same. Apathy is by far the most serious thing that's killing our beloved nation today.
But back to Senator Biden's comments. It is 50/50 I guess as to whether he fully answered the hurting and grieving widow's question or not. He might have in a way, but still I bluemcdowell and probably 99 percent of Appalachian coalfield residents wanted more in the way of specifics. And all Sen. Biden said was a somewhat half-hearted "I'm sorry for your loss" statement and the "implementing the commission findings" statement and that was it. All general stuff and no specific stuff. Typical American way of thinking. Sad but true.
What had happened earlier in the debate was that on Sen. Biden's last comment when he was talking about Pakistan he was cut off by moderator Keith Olbermann due to time constraints. I've even heard criticism in some circles about Keith Olbermann's moderation believe it or not. Well everybody is human and Keith is no exception. He makes mistakes just like you and me. And to Keith's credit he almost always admits his very few mistakes the few times he does slip it and sincerely apologizes 100 percent of the time without exception, unlike our current Commander-in-Chief...
In his haste to say all he wanted to about Pakistan he just "comforted" the woman and said "he'd implement all the commission's recommendations" and that was it.
Whether that was sufficient enough is really not mine to decide. It's the voters in McDowell, Wyoming, Mingo, Logan, and Boone Counties in West Virginia; Floyd and Pike Counties in Kentucky; and Dickenson and Buchanan Counties in Virginia. It's up to them not us.
I personally didn't approve of the way Sen. Biden handled himself. But many good people disagree with me. And that's fine. It's OK for friends to disagree, at least for now. Sadly it may not be much longer after the controversial bill that permits the federal goverment to spy on Americans without a warrant bill is signed by Bush. Very very sad but very very true.
Well just like Keith Olbermann I guess Hillary Clinton is human too. She has uncharacteristically struggled and made some very unheard of mistakes in the last two Democratic debates especially last night. And her two main Democratic opponents Edwards and Obama especially to their credit both took 100 percent full advantage of it. There have been a few times Senator Clinton has slipped up before but had gotten away with it. Not the last two debates however. Obama especially took 100 percent advantage of this golden opportunity and pounced on it immediately. And Edwards has done so too but not quite as much as Obama.
This primary and general election both are really just beginning. I honest don't know who either party's presidential nominee will be. Right now I still give a slight edge to Sen. Clinton on the Democratic side but I have absolutely no idea whom the Republicans will nominate.
We still got a long way to go folks. The election to replace Bush has really just begun.
Jan. 21, 2009 can't come soon enough. And even more so the election Tuesday in 2008....
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